[00:00:00] Allison Sparks: It is helpful when an agency can pick up some of that burden and really listen and understand, and kind of then anticipate needs. And so, the burden isn't all on the client side too. Kind of like spoonfeed every single detail because that can get burdensome if you're trying to really micromanage every aspect of a relationship. 

[00:00:58] Daniel Weiner: Hello and welcome to another episode of the YouShouldTalkTo podcast. I am Daniel Wiener. Currently, this podcast is brought to you by myself, as well as YouShouldTalkTo. 'Till a sponsor ponies up the big bucks, maybe after today, YouShouldTalkTo pairs brands and marketers for free with vetted agencies and/or freelancers for marketing and techniques because finding agencies is a pain in the ass.

[00:01:20] Super excited today to be joined by the Head of Marketing for Shameless Pets, Allison Sparks. Allison, thank you for joining us. I understand this is your first podcast, as well.

[00:01:29] Allison Sparks: It is. Thanks for having me.

[00:01:31] Daniel Weiner: You so excited, you nervous? We're gonna get through this together, I promise. 

[00:01:35] Allison Sparks: Yeah. I'm so, I'm excited.

[00:01:38] Daniel Weiner: Good. Well, fill us in a little bit about your experience. You've had some interesting stuff along the way. Some big brands, uh, some western-known brands, fill us in, give us the cliffs notes.

[00:01:47] Allison Sparks: Yeah. So, I, 

[00:01:48] in undergrad, majored in economics and psychology and had no idea what I wanted to do with my career.

[00:01:55] My dad is actually a marketer and business owner, and I had no interest in that whatsoever and thought, "No way I'm gonna go into the nonprofit world." And so, I did marketing in the nonprofit world for a couple years. It's marketing, but they call it fundraising. And then, decided that I did wanna make a little bit of a switch. And so got my MBA at Northwestern University, at Kellogg School of Management and was

[00:02:20] super lucky there to be exposed to amazing marketers and companies and learned just so much there. And got really interested in product marketing. And so dabbled in CPG marketing, did marketing for a Fortune 500 financial services company, went back to CPG marketing, and worked on the brand Pedialyte for a short stint, and then, due to some family reasons, we moved around a little bit and ended up in Indianapolis, where I worked for a healthcare organization.

[00:02:50] And then, in April of this year, got introduced to Shameless Pets, which is a startup pet treat company that makes sustainable dog and cat treats. And they were looking for somebody to join us full-time, Head of Marketing, and it turned out to be a great fit. And so, I've been having a lot of fun ever since.

[00:03:08] Daniel Weiner: That's awesome. 

[00:03:08] Daniel Weiner: When I was in college and had no clue what I wanted to do, they told me, "Oh, you should be a communications major." So, I was a communications major, and when I graduated and was interviewing, people were like, "You're a communications major. What can you do?" And my response was, typically, "I have no clue.

[00:03:23] They told me I can do anything." Like, "You should go talk to, uh, the faculty at Clemson University, and they should be able to answer that question." So, uh, I def, I definitely understand having no clue what you wanted to do with your life. With Shameless Pets, I'm super interesting, going from, you know, big household names like Pedialyte and stuff like that. Has it been an interesting transition going to a, a lesser-known brand, I presume? 

[00:03:45] Allison Sparks: Yeah, you know, I think marketing tries to solve some similar problems across any industry and any brand. But there are definitely differences between being a large company and being at a, a startup company where there's, you know, really only a couple decision-makers 

[00:04:01] Daniel Weiner: Sure. What's your overall opinion on agencies?

[00:04:04] Are you leaning on them heavily? Are you pro, are you against? Uh, they get a bad rep even though, uh, you know, I work with them pretty largely, but, uh, yeah. What's your overall take on agencies and how they support your business?

[00:04:16] Allison Sparks: Yeah. I love agencies; especially, I think maybe the Caveat is a good one or a strong agency.

[00:04:22] I think it can take some time to build that kind of partnership and relationship and find the right agency, but when you do, I mean, especially as a, a small team, they can help so much and bring so much value to the business. 

[00:04:35] Daniel Weiner: What size team do you have at, uh, Shameless Pets, currently? 

[00:04:39] Allison Sparks: Marketing has a team of two. So, small and scrappy.

[00:04:43] Daniel Weiner: Yeah, I was gonna say, do you guys lean heavily on agencies currently or? 

[00:04:47] Um, we do. I would say a variety of kind of freelancers, vendors, and smaller agencies for a variety of different kind of activations and, and skill sets. 

[00:04:58] Daniel Weiner: Nice. And you talked about, you know, once you find that, like, good agency and great partnership and all that stuff, how well, what do you think goes into that?

[00:05:07] Allison Sparks: That's a good question. I think building kind of that mutual trust and partnership, so being really transparent and, on the client side, being able to articulate the needs of the business and what you're looking for in an agency. And then, on the agency side, being really transparent about what kind of strengths and capabilities they can bring to the table.

[00:05:28] Daniel Weiner: It's always nice to hear someone reference the client side. Um, a friend of mine, Jamie, who sits on my board, has always, uh, I tell her to get a tattoo 'cause she says it so much, " Shit in, shit out." In terms of, like, input and output and, you know, I think a lot of people, I deal with at least, think hiring an agency is like the silver bullet and, you know, they can just kind of, like, step back and solve for all these problems.

[00:05:49] And, you know, the best relationships are typically, uh, super collaborative, and, you know, they need a lot of input, at least at the beginning. It can usually taper over time, but at the beginning, it's a lot of handholding and conversation I find. 

[00:06:02] Allison Sparks: Agree. Yeah. One of the places I was at previously, we had an agency of record that was going on there 11th year.

[00:06:10] And there was really strong leadership alignment on both sides, from the client side and the agency side, that this was a business partner that wasn't going anywhere. And so, it was super collaborative, and I thought, I thought that made for a really, really positive relationship.

[00:06:27] Daniel Weiner: Yeah. That's like unheard of these days, having somebody around for, like, you're lucky if you can stay for, like, two or three years with how quickly the internet, I feel like the internet changed that a lot, uh, truthfully, in terms of just how quickly things change and having flow and all that sort of stuff.

[00:06:43] Allison Sparks: Yeah, it was unique for sure.

[00:06:45] Daniel Weiner: I ask everybody this question, are you getting hit up, like, every single day by a million different vendors, especially with your title agencies, vendors, the whole shebang?

[00:06:56] Allison Sparks: Yes. I think I probably get, you know, couple emails, couple LinkedIn messages a day, if not more than that.

[00:07:06] Daniel Weiner: Sheesh. Is there anything that somebody, I presume, like most, and this isn't a negative, that you're not replying to a vast majority of those? Is there anything that somebody totally cold can say or do to stand out in those types of messages to you?

[00:07:20] I take the opinion, probably not. I'm curious to hear from folks who are actually receiving them. 

[00:07:24] Allison Sparks: Yeah. Honestly, I think it's, I think, in general, the answer is probably no. But sometimes the stars align, and there's a specific need that I'm looking for, and I see an email across my desk that exactly talks about that need.

[00:07:41] Then I, I have actually, you know, responded and have started working with a vendor because of that. So.

[00:07:47] Daniel Weiner: Totally, totally cold prior.

[00:07:49] Allison Sparks: Totally cold. They had emailed; I would say they were persistent, so they had followed up a couple times and each time highlighted a different benefit of, or capability that they offered.

[00:08:00] And that day happened to be the day that I had talked to, you know, three other agencies that didn't meet the bill and was kind of out of my existing go-to list and was like, "Well, it can't hurt to explore this further and, and see if it could be a good fit. And it turned out that it was. 

[00:08:18] Daniel Weiner: If only you had known about YouShouldTalkTo prior to that, could have saved yourself some, uh, some time and energy.

[00:08:23] That's a, an unintended segue into my, uh, my next stuff. When you do need, you reference, like, a short list or the usual folks you reach out to. When you do need something in the past or now, where are you generally starting that process or search? Um, I interviewed Kathleen Booth, who is SVP at, of, uh, marketing at Pavilion, and she kind of had a little bit of a, a viral-ish post saying that community is the new Google, where whether that's your personal network, you know, actual communities and stuff like that, no one is just finding random vendors anymore. They're, they're starting their search with their peers. Is that the same for you? 

[00:09:01] Allison Sparks: Definitely. I think the people in my network, the people in my company's network and then kind of extended network is just kind of, you know, "Oh, talk to so and so and see if they've had experience with this, have they worked with other clients who have had a good experience." And then, based on those kind of closer in connections, if you're still looking, then go to a Slack community or your LinkedIn community and more kind of digital community spaces. But I, I think that's where you have the most luck and kind of the, the best ability to vet certain partners.

[00:09:37] Daniel Weiner: Sure. In general, once you've, you know, gotten your shortlist together, what are you looking for from an agency or vendor? How can they stand out? What's most important to you?

[00:09:47] Allison Sparks: I think the agencies that have stood out most positively have really done a good job in trying to understand our business and our needs. And so, it starts on that like exploratory call when they're asking me a lot of questions instead of jumping straight into a pitch and trying to understand where they can add value and where they can meet us as a collaborative partner and bring maybe value wouldn't even know that we were looking for, instead of just kind of order taking or, or just checking the boxes.

[00:10:21] Daniel Weiner: Sure. I'm curious; I've been talking a lot about this lately with folks, so you found, say you, you know, you're at the final stages, and you found the agency you think you want to work with. Are you checking references, and does that matter to you? I, I find it to be a little bit funny when people ask agencies for references because they're only gonna send you to people that are gonna say wildly positive things about you.

[00:10:39] So, I'm curious if that matters to you. 

[00:10:42] Allison Sparks: Uh, that's a good question. I think, usually, the vetting happens up front because we've been recommended by somebody. So, it's kind of like the reference box has been checked that way first. I do think case studies can be helpful, just to see examples of how the deliverables worked and what kind of results those received.

[00:11:00] But typically, I'm not following up with that case study and asking how it really went on that end.

[00:11:07] Daniel Weiner: That's fair. I've potentially become too cynical towards the own thing. I just find it funny, like, "Are they expecting somebody to say something terrible about this agency that they've sent them as one of their references?"

[00:11:17] I've seen a particularly big shift, especially since Covid, of bigger brands and, you know, smaller brands as well. But bigger shift from big brands working with smaller, specialized agencies typically who are doing one to two things really, really well, hyper-focused on that. What do you think of that trend?

[00:11:37] Daniel Weiner: Have you seen that as well? 

[00:11:39] Allison Sparks: Yeah. Well, in my current role, we're just, we're not big enough to have a lot of agencies, and so we do hire based on the specific need or skill set. I think if you're a bigger brand and depending on how many different skills you're hiring for, that can be a challenge in and of itself to then start managing all those different relationships and making sure that everybody's using consistent branding or messaging across every different activation that you're doing.

[00:12:09] So, I think, I think it really just depends on the business need and what you're trying to achieve. 

[00:12:14] Daniel Weiner: Do you think the AOR model, agency of record type stuff, is viable and sustainable? I've seen people a lot of talk on the internet of that model kind of going away. Do you think, you know, if you're a massive holding company, agency being agency of record is still the way to go for certain brands?

[00:12:29] Allison Sparks: I really think it depends. I talked a little bit about, you know, having an agency of record for ten years, ten plus years, and that relationship was really positive because the strategic value that some of the, the leadership of that agency was bringing, you didn't have to continually onboard somebody and, and get into the nitty gritty and they knew what had worked in the past.

[00:12:53] It was almost like having somebody in-house who could help with all of the creative and execution needs. On the flip side, things can get stale that way, and you can sure kind of miss out on some new ideas. 

[00:13:08] Daniel Weiner: Sure, to reach that level of, like, such alignment like you're talking about, how do you think you get the best out of your agencies as a Head of Marketing or somebody leading a marketing team at some of these companies?

[00:13:18] Do you want a more collaborative type engagement? Do you want to be told, you know, "This is what we think should be done." Is it somewhere in between? Can you talk a little bit about that? 

[00:13:28] Allison Sparks: Yeah. I think building a relationship is like in anything is important. You know, being clear, transparent, communication and having that kind of open communication pathways because, you know, as Head of Marketing, sometimes I have a really clear idea of what we need and what kind of skills we need to get that done.

[00:13:48] But it is helpful when an agency can pick up some of that burden and really listen and understand, and kind of then anticipate needs. And so, the burden isn't all on the client side too. Kind of, like, spoonfeed every single detail because that can get burdensome if you're trying to really micromanage every aspect of a relationship.

[00:14:09] So, I think that you know, just open communication and, and both sides being really invested and feeling that ownership over the deliverables makes a big difference. 

[00:14:18] Daniel Weiner: Sure. It's 

[00:14:18] interesting to hear, and you're not alone in this. I think any, anybody that I ever asked that question, I'm, I think it's only happened once.

[00:14:24] No one really replies with, like, the work, you know, the actual physical product. Like, I hear relationship, you know, before anything, and kind of the common thread has been like, "You can correct work that is not up to par, like, your expectations and stuff, but the relationship is almost impossible to get back and stuff."

[00:14:43] And my kind of like hot take is the work doesn't matter. And what I mean by that is the work for sure matters, but you don't get to do the work. If you mess up the relationship stuff at the beginning or presale or making someone like yourself trust them enough to even hire them, you don't get to do any of it.

[00:14:59] So, it's interesting just to hear. Do you think, you know, we talk a lot about, like, the quality of work? Are you looking for to be wowed? I find with most people that I'm talking to, they're not truthfully like, they would pick even like mediocre work with, like, really making their lives easier and speed and flexibility being the biggest things they hit on.

[00:15:20] Allison Sparks: Yeah, that's interesting. I, I mean, I think quality of work definitely matters. So. I think, I don't think I'm disagreeing with your hot take there, but I think there's a, there's a baseline of, of work that matters, but to your point, if the work is, is at a certain level, and you have a strong relationship, and you can provide that open, honest feedback and, and get it to where it needs to be, in an easy, straightforward way of doing business, then that client, I think, would, I mean that relationship would

[00:15:54] trump somebody who just did slightly better work out of, out of the gate, at the get-go. 

[00:16:01] Daniel Weiner: I've gotta come up with a better hot take. I'm, uh, losing my luster here. This is the portion where we talk about the positives and the negatives of agencies without naming them in particular.

[00:16:10] We'll start with the negatives. We'll end with the positives. Can you think of a particularly bad agency experience you've had in the past and what made it, I guess.

[00:16:18] Allison Sparks: Yeah, I think, without naming names, these...

[00:16:22] Daniel Weiner: No, no, no naming names in this portion, especially. 

[00:16:26] Allison Sparks: Yeah. A negative experience, I think, has been when it was just really kind of a culture of a combative relationship between the client and the agency, where almost anything the agency did was met with frustration because either it wasn't,

[00:16:42] it wasn't on time, it wasn't clear, it wasn't aligned with the expectations. And I think once you get into that cycle, then, even on the client side, you can start kind of just seeing what you're expecting to see. So, whereas you might have a little bit more benefit of the doubt or forgiveness in a more positive relationship, you just start seeing kind of the mistakes everywhere.

[00:17:04] And it can, it can snowball into a really negative relationship pretty quickly. 

[00:17:09] Daniel Weiner: Do you think that type of situation is able to be salvaged, or do you think once it reaches that kind of point, it's time to move on collectively? 

[00:17:18] Allison Sparks: Uh, never. Never say never. I think, you know, if you've got two parties who are really trying to make it work, and maybe even if you can bring in some different people on different sides to kind of start fresh, then sure, maybe there's potential.

[00:17:35] But I do think that that kind of bias that exists once you start expecting to see not quality work or, or expecting to not get what you're asking for, then I do think that effect can be kind of hard to shake, once you establish that pattern. 

[00:17:50] Daniel Weiner: Yeah, I think I, I joke, you get like 1.5 chances, in my opinion, and that's one, like kind of big thing and one kind of small thing.

[00:17:57] And it's better if it happens early in the relationship as those things are somewhat expected, not, you know, the norm by any means. But, yeah, I think further down the road, it's like, "How is this still happening?" So, better to mess up on the front end, uh, in my opinion.

[00:18:12] Allison Sparks: Yeah. And I think where agencies can kind of own up to amiss and, and talk transparently about that versus trying to, like, push it under the rug or make an excuse for what happened on both sides, honestly.

[00:18:26] That sets you up better for success than trying to just Sell what the work was. Um, that was viewed as a mistake. 

[00:18:33] Daniel Weiner: Totally agree. Ownership and transparency is, uh, so crucial, especially, definitely from the client side, as well. But coming from the agency side myself, yeah, like, I'd be lying if I said there weren't plenty of mess-ups and stuff.

[00:18:44] And we had super higher attention as well when I was at my agency. And a lot of that was because, like, you basically own the mistake and tell 'em how you're gonna not do it again and hope you don't. Uh, and if you don't, usually they appreciate, uh, that level of honesty, truthfully. On the more positive side, you talked a little bit about one; I'm hoping there's others.

[00:19:02] You can get a little more specific. What makes it's even in that starting there, like with that 11-year relationship, what made that such a positive experience in your mind? And how the hell did they get to 11 years, truthfully? I mean, that's insane. I was reading recently; I can't remember which brand it was; they had somebody for 30 years.

[00:19:19] Uh, they had been working with, I don't know if it was in an AOR capacity, but it's like unheard of. You know, in this day and age, can you talk a little bit about that? How, how'd they get there, essentially? 

[00:19:28] Allison Sparks: Yeah. I think some of it had to do with the leadership at both client, agency side. There hadn't been a lot of turnover, so they kind of started the relationship together, and really just a lot of mutual respect for the value each the agency could bring.

[00:19:44] And so, built that relationship over time, and leadership on both sides was really committed to making it work. And so, I think that fostered a culture on the client side of treating the agency as a business partner and really looping them into every kind of background detail or behind-the-scenes decisions.

[00:20:03] So, we probably had a lot more access to information than some agency client agencies do. 

[00:20:08] Daniel Weiner: That's such a, it's such a crucial part, not to interrupt, I was just gonna say, like, so many people I talk to hire agencies and then don't treat them like partners, you know, like if you're gonna make that sort of investment, you kind of hit the nail on the head.

[00:20:21] Like, I think you need to treat them like an, an internal employee, you know, without crossing the line of vendor, client. But, yeah, like, if you're gonna make that sort of investment, they should presumably have somewhat the keys to the city, in terms of being aligned from a business standpoint, all decision-making at a certain level, in my opinion.

[00:20:39] Allison Sparks: Yeah, totally agree. We would invite them to come to kind of, like, our initial workshopping of, of a strategy for the year. So, they were there, you know, from the beginning, not just once we had aligned on that strategy to execute. So, they were really a thought partner early on.

[00:20:56] Daniel Weiner: That's awesome. Can you think of any other positive agency experiences?

[00:20:59] The, the other end of the spectrum, not an 11-year relationship, and, and what made that, you know, positive in your opinion? Or even right now, like, you know, with, you said you don't have a ton of agencies, like, but on the smaller scale, when you're working with freelancers or small shops and stuff like that, the positive experiences you have had, how have they been on that smaller scale, I guess?

[00:21:17] Allison Sparks: Yeah, I'm going through the process right now of, of working with a new vendor, and it's been really great, and I think it's because of that really upfront communication around, "Here are the expectations, here's kind of how we fit into your budget." And then, as scope changes, like continually calling out, "Okay, if this, if you wanna do this, then this adds this budget."

[00:21:41] So, being kind of transparent early on around budget and deliverables and expectations. And then, being flexible within that, to kind of see as, as the agency gets to better understand our needs from the Shameless Pet side, how they can add value in the most efficient way. So, not trying to add on things just to build business, but really make sure that it makes sense for us.

[00:22:07] Daniel Weiner: Sure. That's truthfully the biggest; I posted about this last week on LinkedIn, the biggest, like, headbutting I see is because brands want exactly what you just described; they want budget and scope, flexibility. You know, it's, it's just really hard to say like, "Oh, we're gonna do these five things the exact same way every single month."

[00:22:27] You know, especially in the startup world, uh, agencies want that. They want the exact same scope every single month, with no changes, you know? And I feel for the agency. It's hard to, at a certain level, like, be super nimble and super quick with that sort of stuff. But I think the agencies who can figure out, like, that budget and scope, nimbleness and flexibility of, "Yeah, like this can flex in either direction, you know, if it needs to." Are the ones that are gonna have a better chance of being around for 11 years versus, uh, the opposite end of the spectrum?

[00:22:59] Allison Sparks: Yeah. And I, I, I feel for them too. I see that point. It's like it's hard to build a business on that flexibility, but as a brand, we really appreciate it.

[00:23:09] Daniel Weiner: That's why I think, truthfully, at the very beginning, there's such a misalignment often because, yeah, they're coming at it from two different business sides.

[00:23:16] You need the flexibility, and they want to give it to you, but it's easier to be like, "Oh, you're just paying for 30 hours a month, or whatever it is, and we're gonna do the exact deliverables the same." That's, your, your two ideal scenarios are different. So, I think meeting in the middle on the front-end, like you talked about, being super transparent if those are your expectations, I tell everybody, I'm like, everybody can say no at the beginning, like, "Be, be brutally honest." Like, "You guys don't wanna hire each other and then fire each other." So, yeah, brutal, radical transparency at the beginning usually helps arrive at that, uh, figuring out a way to flex where both sides are happy with how that's going.

[00:23:53] Allison Sparks: Yeah. And, honestly, I've been really impressed by a vendor when they say, "Sorry, I don't think that we're a good fit for you." Because I just, I respect that a lot, that they're kind of willing to, you know, not go into something that they know is not gonna be a good fit. 

[00:24:07] Daniel Weiner: Yeah. The agencies that I choose to partner with that's a big thing, truthfully, I do not want agencies who are going to attempt to take on everything, and I want them to tell me no or, like, push back with concerns before I make an introduction to a brand of, "Well, here's our concerns, here's, like, what we're thinking now." You know, I'd rather all of that on the front end.

[00:24:26] The last thing I want to do is once somebody's on the phone with someone like you, then they say, "Oh, we're not a good fit. We don't want to handle all of that upfront." But, yeah, I mean, truthfully, the most successful agencies I have are hyperfocused on what they do best and re, either refer out to other partners for the stuff that they do not, or they just say no and don't get involved with it.

[00:24:48] And it has served them well. And so.

[00:24:50] Allison Sparks: Yeah. I'll amend that to say; I guess it would've been better to have you vet that before.

[00:24:54] Daniel Weiner: That's the, that's the plug we're looking for, Alison. There we go. I like that. Next time. Next time you need a vendor, you know where to find me. Uh, what are you most bullish on in the marketing world right now?

[00:25:06] You've got, you've got everything at your disposal, being e-commerce. We've got NFTs, we've got a metaverse, we've got in-person events are back. What are you most pumped about? The answer could also be nothing. No one has told me that. I just want somebody to tell me they're exhausted once. 

[00:25:19] Allison Sparks: Uh, no, no, I'm, I am still excited.

[00:25:23] I think it'd be hard to be in this role with being totally exhausted. 

[00:25:27] Daniel Weiner: I think you can be excited and exhausted. That's how I feel when I hear I'm like another thing when BeReal, the social network, came out. I was like, "Are you kidding me? There's another thing that we've gotta all, like, learn and figure out." 

[00:25:38] Allison Sparks: Yeah. I mean, there's so many constant new channels to think about and vet, but I think at the end of the day, you've got a really solid marketing strategy of what you're trying to achieve with your marketing activations; it gets less overwhelming. And so, I think one of the things I'm most excited about is just brand partnerships and the humanization of brands that I've been seeing.

[00:26:01] Just more and more brands have to make that personal connection with consumers to build that brand affinity and loyalty. And it's fun to see brands kind of go outside the box and be less traditional and enter into partnerships with other brands that may have been seen as risky in the past. But now it's just kind of, like, you know, building that community and taking advantage of different brands, audiences and building new connections in new ways, I think, is really fun.

[00:26:30] Allison Sparks: you've got a fun challenge as well, or a fun spot to be in too. I'd argue you're in the top two, uh, fanatical, community spaces, animals, and babies. I, you, you could argue animals more than babies for plenty of people. As I imagine that affords you, uh, a little more leeway to do, uh, what I would call, like, cool stuff.

[00:26:49] Has Shameless Pets done anything kind of, like, outside the box since you've been there that you're particularly, um, you know, proud of or excited about? Yeah, so being a pet brand, it's so true. People are really, really love their pets, and it's, it's so fun to connect with them. And as a treat company, we get to bring people joy.

[00:27:09] So, it's, you know, you get to treat your pet and have a lot of fun with that. So, all of our treats have some really fun names, and I think that's really fun, and people really respond to that. So, we just launched a new line of air drag cat treats, and, you know, the names are like Shrimp, Paradise or, or You Tuna Me On.

[00:27:30] And those are kind of, you know, pushing the envelope names that people, it's just really fun. 

[00:27:35] I live for punny. I live for punny copy. So, whoever wrote that, Kudo, kudos to them. 

[00:27:41] Allison Sparks: Yeah. And then another activation that we're, we're launching soon is some out-of-home billboards on trucks that drive around some of our target markets for a period of time.

[00:27:52] And so, those are really, really, really fun, creative to put together around kind of that joy and then our mission of upcycling. So, we prevent food waste by upcycling ingredients into our treats. And it's just; it's really fun to be able to promote that love of pets and love of planet in a really kind of joyful way.

[00:28:11] Daniel Weiner: That's awesome. Yeah. That's a win-win for everybody. What, on the alternative side, what keeps you up at night from a marketing or business standpoint? 

[00:28:22] Allison Sparks: Uh, it's really kind of the flip of the same side is that you do have to kind of continually build these relationships with consumers.

[00:28:31] Remind them of your brand because people are so inundated and overwhelmed with information these days. And to think about how to constantly get in front of your consumer when it matters to them is, I think, the part that can be exhausting at times and especially when you're trying to do it on a small and scrappy budget.

[00:28:50] Daniel Weiner: And without annoying people or doing anything wrong, like, it's just the, uh, the internet is, is the best thing ever. It just makes everybody's lives, uh, so much more difficult and complex from a consumer standpoint to your point when everybody's being hit up by messaging and advertising all day. Finding that right balance of, that's why I think it's cool that you're in a space that everybody loves, 'cause I don't know that anybody's getting pissed off of seeing, like, cute pet stuff.

[00:29:15] Allison Sparks: That's true. That, that is a plus that we have going for us the pet category. 

[00:29:19] Daniel Weiner: Yeah. If all else fails, puppies and kittens is a good, uh, a good way to, uh, not piss people off. That is the last marketing-related question I have for you, but I'll, I'll rapid fire a couple regular ones that I ask everybody.

[00:29:33] What was your very, very first job? Like, pre, you know, high school or growing up and stuff like that, whenever? 

[00:29:40] Allison Sparks: Oh, I, probably babysitting. Does that count? 

[00:29:43] Daniel Weiner: It can. What, what was your first job for somebody else? Uh, but yes, babysitting does count. 

[00:29:48] Allison Sparks: Yeah. So, I, I babysat a lot as a kind of middle schooler and high schooler, but then I think my first, like, real paycheck job, it was the cushiest high school job ever because I got to be a receptionist at a real estate agencies.

[00:30:02] Um, for a couple hours after school, a week. And so, I could just kind of do my homework and answer the phones, and it was a pretty good gig for, for a high school kid. 

[00:30:12] Daniel Weiner: Do you think that that prepared you at all for what you're doing these days, from a communication standpoint or just dealing with people?

[00:30:18] Allison Sparks: Yeah, I think, I think every job has something to teach you. So, being able to answer phones and take messages and get the right message to the right person in a timely manner, sure. I, that's a, a valuable lesson as a high school student. 

[00:30:32] Daniel Weiner: I, I agree. I, uh, bused tables in high school; it made me, I think, a significantly more patient person, doing that, working in a restaurant system.

[00:30:41] What would your, I've been told my questions a little too morbid, so I've been reframing; it used to be, "What's your death row meal?" I'll just say like, what's your favorite, or if you could pick one meal, what would it be? 

[00:30:50] Allison Sparks: Ooh, I love food. So, really. There's a lot I could pick, but I, I'll say...

[00:30:57] Daniel Weiner: Curate a tasting menu for yourself.

[00:31:00] Allison Sparks: Yeah. When I was in college, I studied abroad and went to Italy for a week and had just like the best fresh seafood pasta with homemade pesto and that, I would just, like, have a big Italian dinner. 

[00:31:14] Daniel Weiner: And you,

[00:31:14] I, I did a month in Europe, uh, a few years ago, and the food in Italy is wonderful. You also don't feel like dying/going to sleep, like, right after 'cause it's just better than the food here.

[00:31:25] So, I'm totally with you there. 

[00:31:26] Allison Sparks: Yeah, fresh. The portions are more reasonable.

[00:31:30] Daniel Weiner: Finish every meal with an ice cream or gelato. And you feel, you feel great? 

[00:31:33] Allison Sparks: Feel good. Yeah. 

[00:31:35] Daniel Weiner: And then, my final question for you, who is somebody who inspires you personally, professionally, both, whatever. 

[00:31:41] Allison Sparks: Okay. I swear they're not paying me to say this, but I think.

[00:31:45] Daniel Weiner: I can't. Is it Shameless Pets?

[00:31:47] Allison Sparks: I was gonna say our two co-founders at Shameless Pets, James Fellow and Alex Waite are, are really inspiring to me, and I, that's kind of why I love my job right now. They started the company in 2018. James was a food buyer at Target and saw kind of firsthand how much food was going to waste. And Alex is a food scientist and really loves pets, and it's just, it's fun to be around to people who care so much and are so invested in the product that we're making and have kind of built this company from scratch and continually are pushing for growth and I just, you know, wake up every day excited to grow the business and to make a difference for pet fans, for the planet.

[00:32:31] It can sound cheesy at times, but it's, I mean, it's true. And that's why I think they're just both super inspiring, and feel lucky to get to do what I do. 

[00:32:41] Daniel Weiner: Even if they did pay you to say that. Feeling inspired by the folks you work with is awesome, and I would argue the goal for virtually everybody who is not working for themselves.

[00:32:51] So, no, that is great. But, uh, I appreciate you joining us today. I assume the best spot for Vulture salespeople to send you something is via LinkedIn, not your email. Um, and it's shamelesspets.com as well, for any, uh, pet owners out there interested in, uh, finding out more about what you all are doing over there.

[00:33:10] Daniel Weiner: Is that accurate?

[00:33:11] Allison Sparks: That's right. 

[00:33:12] Daniel Weiner: Awesome. Well, thank you very much for joining us today, and, yeah, next time will be, uh, on the lookout for that next agency process you're looking for. 

[00:33:20] Allison Sparks: Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. This was really fun. 

[00:33:23] Absolutely.