In this episode of YouShouldTalkTo, Ivonne Kinser, the VP of Marketing and Innovation at Avocados From Mexico, explains why the Metaverse doesn't work for all brands and gets into the differences between the culture of a brand and the culture of an agency and their perspectives. Ivonne and our host Daniel Weiner discuss the importance of agencies and how you can successfully choose the right ones and work with them.
💡 Name: Ivonne Kinser, VP of Marketing and Innovation at Avocados From Mexico.
💡 Noteworthy: Throughout her career, Ivonne has played leadership roles in multiple corporations representing multibillion-dollar brands, as well as in top advertising agencies such as Lintas, McCann Erickson Worldwide, and The Richards Group, working with well-known brands in almost every category. In 2014, she joined Avocados From Mexico as the head of Digital Marketing, and in seven years, she built the organization's digital practice, which became one of the most successful digital groups in terms of performance and innovation. In 2022, Ivonne became the first Latina to be awarded the American Marketing Association's highest honor bestowed upon a deserving recipient, the Lifetime Achievement Award. She has also been included in the list of "100 Most Influential Latinas in the U.S." in 2021 and 2022.
⚡ The Metaverse is not for everyone and every brand. Recently, the number of startups and established companies working on building products around the Metaverse has been growing. The Metaverse is a virtual world, a vision of how the next internet generation will work. It's a trend, but while some see it as the next big technological breakthrough, others aren't impressed. Ivonne says the Metaverse works for some brands but not all. "You have one shot and that sort of thing. If you go and you do it right, you'll have great results; or you will burn the brand in the eyes of the consumers that may have a bad experience. And honestly, I have no doubt that we're going to get there. If we have the same conversation in maybe three years, the situation will be a lot different, but right now, I don't think the hardware is there to provide the experience that we want to provide to our consumers. There are exceptions; there are some brands that are doing it really well, but it's not a majority."
⚡ Agencies don't have visibility into all the areas of business. More and more brands are working with smaller independent agencies specializing in one or two services because hardly any full-service agency can do everything really well. According to Ivonne, it's hard to find an agency that can have visibility over all the areas of the business as someone has on the brand side. "Agencies are missing one capability that perhaps is at the strategic level. When a group of people at the part, whatever you want it to be, can look at the business of the brand and look at all the possibilities, and then identify the problem, identify the ways to get to that solution, and then assemble that team of expertise within the agency."
⚡ Ivonne says there's a lot to learn about digital integration from vendors and agencies, so she always devotes time to those who offer technology that is a strong driver of anything and those who understand brand challenges and provide a solution for a specific problem. "One of the things that makes a brand successful in this space — digital technology integration — is just gathering the knowledge from the players that are building those capabilities in the industry. So, I gain as much as they gain because I'm learning from them.
YouShouldTalkTo - Ivonne Kinser
[00:00:00] Ivonne Kinser: The opportunity is that interception between creativity, data and technology. Because, yes, you cannot sacrifice creativity to be too, like, data-oriented, but you have to bring those three elements together, and that's what give you really, really powerful output.
[00:00:19] Daniel Weiner: Hello and welcome to another episode of the YouShouldTalkTo podcast. I am your host, Daniel Weiner, I am also the chief sponsor until we get somebody to pony up the big box, maybe after this one. YouShouldTalkTo pairs brands and marketers for free with vetted agencies and/or freelancers for pretty much any marketing or technology need because finding great agencies
[00:01:18] is exhausting and takes a lot of time, and we've taken a lot of that out for you. I am super excited to be joined today by Ivonne Kinser, who is VP of Marketing and Innovation at Avocados From Mexico. I considered all morning if I was gonna do the little jingle, and I will spare you, uh, me doing that.
[00:01:33] But thank you so much for joining us, Ivonne. How are you today?
[00:01:35] Ivonne Kinser: Thank you, Daniel. Thank you for inviting me. I'm thrilled to be here.
[00:01:40] Daniel Weiner: Awesome. Well, we're gonna dive into, uh, the Super Bowl stuff here in a little bit. I'm, I'm sure you're exhausted from that, but we'll kick off with a fun one. Uh, I talked to a lot of CMOs, VPs of Marketing, Head of Marketing, and everybody seems to have some sort of unpopular opinion in the marketing world or a hot take of sorts.
[00:01:56] What is yours?
[00:01:57] Ivonne Kinser: Oh, man, you know, I have a positive, very positive outlook about everything in general. So,
[00:02:03] I think I have a very selective memory. It's just forget the bad and remember the good things. Um, if I, I mean, not in the negative, not from the negative perspective, but it's something that maybe I disagree with.
[00:02:16] The first thing that comes to my mind is the hype of the metaverse, for example. And I know that it is maybe a very unpopular point of view, but what I think is that I don't disagree with it 100%, but I think that the industry have gone after Ed, like there's not tomorrow and the great thing in the, in the universe.
[00:02:41] And, and I do think that it is, it works for some brands that are trying to do some specific things, that has a specific demographic that is the metaverse could be aligned with the strategies, but it's not for everyone, and every brand. And, honestly, if you think about it, you have one shot and, at that sort of things, I mean, if you, you go and you do it right, and you have great results, or you will burn the brand in the, in the eyes of the consumers that may have a bad experience.
[00:03:14] And, honestly, I have no doubt that we're going to get there, if you, if we have the same conversation in maybe three years this, the situation will be a lot different, but right now I don't think the hardware is there to provide the experience that we want to provide to our consumers. Again, the except, there, there's exceptions, there's some brands that are doing it really, really well.
[00:03:39] But it is, I will say that it's not a majority.
[00:03:43] Daniel Weiner: Yeah, I agree with you. I actually saw a good, uh, article on it yesterday that I think summed up well, or my opinion at least well, in that the barrier of entry is still so insanely high for both brands and consumers to enter and play in the metaverse that like, yeah, I think we're still probably, I would say, I mean, three years would be cool.
[00:04:02] I'm thinking more like 5 or 10. But, no, I agree. I think it goes back to the theory that, like, for brands, and I'm curious your opinion, like, you know, shiny ball syndrome, all these new platforms pop up all the time and, like, I take the opinion as a brand, like you should understand them and, like, think about it, but you just don't have to be everywhere and you probably shouldn't, maybe from a budget perspective, as well.
[00:04:23] Do you kind of take that opinion, as well?
[00:04:24] Ivonne Kinser: Yeah. You know what? It is just, there's a fundamental approach to this, and this is, "I want to be technology agnostic." So, I think that brands should use technology as an enabler and not as a driver. So, the difference is if I have an opportunity or a problem and I look into the, the toolbox or the marketing technology ecosystem and, and I handpick the technology that will help me to tap into that opportunity or solve that problem, that's completely different than saying, "Hmm, metaverse is cool.
[00:05:00] Let's do something on the metaverse." And maybe it's, it's completely misaligned with your goals, and, and your business objective. So, so, that's what the disconnection is. That, that's what I wanna be very clear. It's not that I completely disagree, but I disagree with the way it has been adopted so massive, massively in the industry, on the, the brand side, which some brands doing it great and some others just having a very mediocre attempt.
[00:05:27] Daniel Weiner: Yeah. I think that's really good advice to other marketing leaders, truthfully, to the line you said about being an enabler and making sure just because a new platform or something pops up, that it still aligns with everything else you're doing, and you don't have to be there just for the sake of being there.
[00:05:42] Ivonne Kinser: Right.
[00:05:44] Daniel Weiner: You've worked at agencies, you've worked at brands, you now lead a brand and are a marketing leader at a brand. Tell us a little bit about that journey for you and what's the biggest change you've seen from, like, the beginning of your career to where we are now.
[00:05:57] Ivonne Kinser: So, I started my career at an agency. You know, it's interesting, that question, because the change has been in the decisions that I have made. I, I decided at some point to go on the brand side and, but the irony of that is if I take that question and I interpret it to answer what had changed in the advertising agency world, I will say nothing.
[00:06:23] And I started my career 20 years ago.
[00:06:27] But if you go even before that, let's go to Madman, nothing have changed. Absolutely nothing. So, you still have these, um, verticals, you have the creative guide or group, you have the account service, you have the strategy, and that's it. And, in the meantime, we're talking about what, like 60 years,
[00:06:47] so, in the meantime, we have the problems of the brands, and the businesses have grown exponentially in complexity, and you still have the same structure that you had when we had, like, three networks and not the, the internet didn't exist. So, that is, it's, it's mind-boggling to me that how no one, I mean, it is an industry with so, so much smart people,
[00:07:16] so much talent in the industry and how can no one still have figured out that the business of the, problems of the brands are much more complex, that those verticals and try to find the solutions in a vertical way instead of, like, a horizontal way and find the solution, whatever the solution is. And likely, actually, I will say for sure it's not going to be in, in one little box. You have to open multiple box to find that solution.
[00:07:53] Daniel Weiner: Yeah, I think I agree. I think my comment would be, I think specialization is potentially one of the, uh, potential ways to solve that in that I agree, you can't put it all in one box. I think, to your point, like, the world is just grown exponentially, and technology changes literally every single second.
[00:08:09] Social media, new platforms, all that sort of stuff. I think the agencies I see winning the most, or doing the best, stay in their lane, like they have, you know, one to three services, and they're very intentional about the work they do. And I truthfully feel for full, quote-unquote, full-service agencies, it's just hard to do so many things super well and have brand.
[00:08:33] If you do one thing well, your brand is gonna come back to you and say, your client's gonna come back to you and say, "Hey, can you do this other thing?" And it's really hard to, uh, just do everything super well, to your point, since the internet became a thing.
[00:08:45] Ivonne Kinser: Yeah. No, you are completely right. 100%. Actually, I believe in specialization, as well. I believe in specialization on both sides, in the brand side and in the agency side. What I'm, what I'm referring to is that agencies are missing one capability that perhaps is at the strategic level when a group of people at the part, whatever you, you want it to be, can look at the business of the brand and look at all the possibilities, and then identify the problem, identify the ways to get to that solution, and then assemble that team of expertise within the agency. That figure, it's still not there, to my knowledge.
[00:09:31] Maybe, maybe the most forward-thinking agencies will act that way, but I'm speaking from my perspective of a brand. I will love someone that can have visibility over all the areas of the business like we have on the brand side. I'm, the, I have the visibility to all the areas of marketings within my department, whether it is media or digital, or TV, or, and then I can identify problems.
[00:10:00] I can identify opportunities. So, it will be great for brands to have a person, that group on the agency side, that can see the same perspective and the same problems that I'm seeing from the perspective of a brand, basically.
[00:10:16] Daniel Weiner: No, that makes total sense. Let's keep down this path with the agency side. Uh, when you're looking, like, say you've, you know, come to the determination, "We need a new agency." Or you're gonna put out an RFP or something like that. In general, while you are evaluating, what are you looking for from an agency or vendor?
[00:10:31] Like, how can, you know, to folks out there, in agency world, listening, how can they stand out to you? What's important to you? And I'll frame it in another way, as well. Like, one of my unpopular opinions is that the work doesn't matter, and of course, the work matters. What I mean by that is I think a lot of agencies over-index for work and creative, and they lean on how great they are, and they forget the process and the rapport part
[00:10:54] of building a relationship with their brand. So, I'm curious to hear, when you're talking to new agencies or even vendors, what's important to you?
[00:11:01] Ivonne Kinser: So, the, the work matters, of course. I mean, the work, that's why we are in this industry, the, to do great work. When you go through a selection for an agency, I don't think that there's one person who make the decision. I think that there's multiple stakeholders that evaluate the, the agencies and, and just make a
[00:11:21] decision collectively. But I think that putting the work aside because the work matters the most. I mean, is this the most important, that, again, that's why we are in the industry, but I think that agency cannot forget that people do business with people, and that's very important. It's the chemistry that you have with the agency and how well that agency fit within the culture of the organization.
[00:11:46] How, then, of course, there's, uh, areas of the business that are important is how well that agency understand the business and how align is that perspective of the agency with the perspective of the, the people, the stakeholders within the brand. But I wanna emphasize the people component and, and the chemistry component that is so important, not only to gain the business but also to maintain the business and to get the best out of that relationship.
[00:12:18] Daniel Weiner: That's a, uh, less controversial way of making I, of agreeing. I think, with, uh, I totally agree. The work is the most important thing at the end of the day. On the frontend, though, I think people forget, like, you don't get to do the work unless you build the chemistry and the rapport and stuff like that.
[00:12:31] So, to that end, you know, I've seen a big shift since COVID, especially a little bit before. I come from a smaller independent agency background. You know, we were like 25 head counted our peak before I resigned in 2020. I've seen the shift moving from bigger name brands working with smaller, independent agencies who are specialized in one to two services.
[00:12:52] You know, I know we just talked about specialization and stuff like that. Have you seen that, and what's your opinion of, like, big agencies, small agency, independent versus network, and stuff like that?
[00:13:01] Ivonne Kinser: So, I mean, you're preaching to the chorus because I, that's what I believe, and when I built the, even, I started with my brand almost nine years ago, and I was brought in to build a digital marketing practice from the ground up. And I started bringing agencies one at a time because I started developing these capabilities one at a time.
[00:13:22] And at some point, I had, like, 10 different agencies. And we're talking only about in the digital space, an agency that specialized in social media, se, another agency, SEO, media planning and buying, , web development, technology integration. So, all those capabilities, because it's very important for me to get, to have that expertise.
[00:13:45] But I think that we're a very unique case because we have wonderful agencies, and they work very, very well with each other, very involved, like 100% hands-on. And it feels, with all of them, and each of them and, and I have integrated them, but the credit is to them because they play so well in the same sandbox, and they call each other and collaborate with each other like it is one agency.
[00:14:12] So, from my view, I may have 10 agencies, but it feels like it's one. And because it is a unity of work and they, every one of them has a piece of the work, for me, it's very effortless because they work very well together.
[00:14:31] Daniel Weiner: That's great. I, I'm curious, you know, your advice to other Heads of Marketing, marketing leaders in general, whether they have multiple agencies or even just one, like, to reach that, you know, is, is rare for my experience of having multiple agencies who play super well together in the same ecosystem.
[00:14:47] What's your advice for achieving that and just getting the most out of your agencies, in general?
[00:14:53] Ivonne Kinser: I think that the market tier has to be very involved in that process and, but, but remember, I don't know, I don't know how other brands work. I only can speak work for my experience, for the past nine years, but because my agency background, I think, I sit on the table with my agencies, like one of them.
[00:15:16] So, I blend with them and bring them together. And I think that, it just feels like a team. I don't see the agencies like, "This is you, and this is me." I think, like, we have this, the same interest. We want to grow this brand together, and each of them has capabilities that we don't have internally, capabilities that the other one doesn't have or have, but in a different degree.
[00:15:43] So, I think that it is important, the involvement of the brand. I think that in general, I have been in both places, and I think that in general, the culture of a brand is completely different than the culture of an agency. Brands are more, for, for once the, the pace is slower, the agency move like really, really fast.
[00:16:08] And I think that that kind of dual perspective has given me the ability to accomplish that amazing relationship that I have with all my agencies and they, they have with each other. I mean, it's, it's really amazing. I don't think that I have seen that. I don't think that I have heard that, some, a group of agencies that work that well together.
[00:16:31] Daniel Weiner: Yeah, it's rare. I would say, uh, to be candid, a lot of agencies I speak with that, they'll say that on the front end, but everybody's vying for each other's business, and it's less of a cohesive unit. So, when it does happen, that's, that's great to hear. It sounds like that was the impetus too of my next portion of this whole thing, which I'm super interested in because I've never worked even close to a Super Bowl spot and stuff like that.
[00:16:52] You know, you guys came together and did that. Talk me through that process, like how long before actual Super Bowl was the decision made, "Let's do this." And, like, when did planning start for all that?
[00:17:02] Ivonne Kinser: So, it depends, right? We always wanted to start early every year. We say, "This year we're going to start in May." And the truth is that by the time that we select the script that we're going to take to be produced is sometimes September, October. So, uh, there's a lot of things that had to happen before.
[00:17:24] We do a very thorough selection of the script. We are very research-driven, so we pretest everything. We pretest the, out of maybe 30 scripts that we review we select the four that we think that has the best potential, and then we take them to pretest with the consumer. And then we determine the likeability to increase brand metrics, like brand recall or likeability or, uh, message we call brand equity.
[00:18:00] And that's the one we take to production. So, after that, I think one of the most complex pieces of this is the selection and engagement of the celebrity. And every brand that has worked on Super Bowl knows how, how complex is that piece. Because you're playing with multiple moving pieces and everything has to fall into place with budget, with relevancy of the celebrity within the script.
[00:18:30] And you don't know what is that relevancy until you don't have the script that is selected based on the results of the pretest. So, once you have all that, which is, again, complex and difficult, then you go to production and is determining the location and determining, finding the director, that's another challenging piece.
[00:18:52] And then, it's just producing and preparing to your launch. And the launch is a lot more complicated than used to be in previous years, before the internet and all these technologies because
[00:19:05] Ivonne Kinser: if you think about it, in the past, we have, the Super Bowl was the advertising day. But since, you know, the internet and every year new technologies and, and new verticals in marketing, we think about it as the advertising season. So we, for example, we started launching the Super Bowl campaign in October with a super media effort, and then the drumbeat goes from October all the way to the Super Bowl date.
[00:19:36] Ivonne Kinser: We launched the teaser somewhere in between and a lot of other activations, the digital activations, the introduction of the celebrities. So, it's a big, big collective effort where multiple departments participate, multiple agencies participate. Status meetings for the Super Bowl can be sometimes 30, 40 people.
[00:19:59] So, it's a very complex campaign from the operation standpoint. And I think that, I cannot even imagine how a brand that doesn't have the quality of the relationship between agencies could pull off something so complex like a Super Bowl campaign.
[00:20:21] Daniel Weiner: Yeah, it's wild. The amount of time, effort, and work that goes into, you know, 15 to 45 seconds of, uh.
[00:20:28] Ivonne Kinser: I know.
[00:20:29] Daniel Weiner: In your opinion, how did it go? I mean, how stressful was it, truthfully, on a scale of 1 to 10? I mean, it, it, it's funny like being on the other side of smaller stuff, you know, they're usually crazy stressful.
[00:20:40] And then you get to, and you're, you take a big sigh of relief. Like, how, how stressful was it on you? And I'm curious, what did you do during the Super Bowl?
[00:20:47] Ivonne Kinser: So, I mean, it was, it depended on what day do you ask, right? You are, you know, some days were great, and it's exciting, and we're building things and we're making things happen. We, for example, we made the, the decision in October, and we produced in December. So, those two months were extremely stressful.
[00:21:10] In October, we didn't have director, we didn't have celebrity, we just had a script. Locally, the script was so compelling that not only we had a great director. We have, in my opinion, arguably the best Super Bowl director, director who is, uh, Brian Buckley. And he's the only Super Bowl director on Earth that has done 71 Super Bowl commercials.
[00:21:35] So, for a brand like us to have that caliber of direction and, and we had him only because he loved the script. And then we engaged the celebrity, Anna Ferris because she loved the script, she wanted to be in a Super Bowl campaign, and she loved to work with, the opportunity to work with Brian Buckley.
[00:21:54] So, between October and December, all these pieces came, coming together like little miracles, really and, and we end up, was shooting in, in December in Mexico City. I'm very proud of the work that we put out there and, um,
[00:22:10] with our agency, Lerma. I think that, you know, we live in an industry that is very subjective, and, you know, some people
[00:22:19] may like the work, some people may not like the work, but as a brand that is very disciplined with the measures and the metric, It worked for us.
[00:22:28] One of the big goals that we had was to increase the message understanding. It was low last year at, we measured with Phoenix, and it was, uh, 45%, which was below the norm. So, we set a goal that it was very ambitious to lift that to 60%, from 45%. Well, this spot end up lifting it to 75%. So, the message was very, very clear.
[00:22:54] And that was one of the big wings that we had. And, you know, in, um, likeability, for example, we were at the same level of Bud Light, in, um, the Harris Paul report. So, you know, when we look at the, in a, we look at it in a practical way and the brand metrics and the marketing metrics, it worked great.
[00:23:17] It did the, it did the job that it, it was supposed to do.
[00:23:21] Daniel Weiner: Yeah. I'm, well, my first question, what'd you do during the Super Bowl? Your eyes, or were you, uh, were you, was it a day of relaxation or?
[00:23:29] Ivonne Kinser: No, no, not at all. Actually, we have, you know, Avocados From Mexico has been known for having some of the most effective digital campaigns from year one. We started working with Super Bowl in 2015. And actually, that was my first assignment coming to the, the companies building out digital Super Bowl campaign.
[00:23:56] And so, our Super Bowl campaigns in, on the digital side are very robust. And once you finish the production of the spot, the digital production is in full swing. And we have a lot of technology integration and we have really engaging interactive activations on the website. So, all that work starts after we kind of take a break with the production of the spot, and all that comes in full swing.
[00:24:23] So, what, to your question, what I was doing in the Super Bowl I was going to our social media command center, our agency in Dallas. And so, there was a kind of a confusion where we were supposed to run in the second quarter, and it ran in the first quarter instead.
[00:24:42] I was on a, on, on an Uber when the commercial run.
[00:24:46] So, that was a bummer. But, you know...
[00:24:47] Daniel Weiner: I ima, I imagine that was like, uh, I don't know, a holy shit moment, seeing it air when you weren't expecting it from your team.
[00:24:54] Ivonne Kinser: Yeah. Yeah. So, so, it was on the, the, on the network side, and they were amazing. Our agency have us was incredible, just working out with Fox, they, and just we getting that resolved. So, it was a great experience, and it's those things that happened that, you know, it is just the nature of the piece. I mean, things are not perfect, but at the end they are perfect.
[00:25:18] Daniel Weiner: I'm, I'm curious, I hope you'll an, all answer this next one. Uh, candidly, I'm curious your opinion, like, when you think back, I know hindsight's 2020, like in the grand scheme, and I, you don't have to tell me your budget, but when you weigh, like, budget and time and effort and all that stuff leading up, like, I'm curious if you think it's wholly worth it and, like, happy with results and to other like, you know,
[00:25:40] bigger named brands who are considering making that type of investment. Like, what's your, uh, advice for, I guess, weighing the effectiveness on the front end of thinking of like, "Is this worth it for our brand?"
[00:25:51] Ivonne Kinser: 100% worth it. 100%. And I'm telling you, if it was only a spot, like it's, the perception is, "Oh, well, brands are paying this much for a spot." Well, first of all, it's not a spot. It's,
[00:26:04] uh, that spot comes with a match in, within the network. So, so, it's several spots and, but also it gives you, is the anchor of a one-and-a-half, two-month campaign that delivers billions of impressions, at least on our side, on the PR side, on the digital side, it put you as a brand in the spotlight for a couple of month. The level of awareness that a brand gains
[00:26:34] with the Super Bowl campaign is second to none and for, ba, based on the investment. Right? And I know 'cause I have been in, on this side, I know that you can launch a phenomenal Super Bowl campaign, not only this spot, with much less budget that most people imagine if you are very careful with how you make the investment and how much you maximize the efforts that you put out there.
[00:27:07] So, we don't have the pockets of our Super Bowl competitors by any means. But I think that we compete at the same level. And, but we are very mindful of the, our budget, our locations, and how we maximize really, really maximize each dollar that we put out there.
[00:27:28] Daniel Weiner: That's great advice. I appreciate you sharing candidly. Most marketers that I chat with, who have comparable titles at comparable, at comparable companies and brands are getting hit up, like, every 12 seconds by agencies and vendors through email, text, phone calls, LinkedIn. Is that the case for you, as well?
[00:27:43] Ivonne Kinser: Yes, of course.
[00:27:45] Daniel Weiner: Question I ask everybody, is there, if you're not in buying mode, is there anything an agency or vendor can say in a cold message that will catch your attention?
[00:27:55] Ivonne Kinser: Yeah. You know, I have thought about, a lot about that because I have a lot of respect for the people in the industry, in agencies and vendors and I know the effort they had to do to reach out to a lot of people every day. So, I do my best to give my time to them. It's impossible.
[00:28:17] It's just impossible. At least sometimes I think, I wish I could say to everybody, "Thank you for reaching out, but I'm sorry, at this point, I don't need it." But I will need a robot to respond to all that, unfortunately. And this is, uh, it, it really, I don't like to do this, but it's just have no choice. I have to delete a lot of them without an answer.
[00:28:38] Now, there's multiple reasons that get me to give my time. And it's not that I'm busier than anybody else. Everybody's really busy. But, how I just find valuable giving my time is two things, even I may not have an opportunity for that specific vendor at this point, but it may be a technology that is interesting to me, that I think that is a, a strong enabler of anything and I may need it in the future.
[00:29:08] And then I want to learn. And, and I think that one of the things that has, that makes a brand successful in this space, digital technology integration, is just that gathering the knowledge from the players that are building those capabilities in the industry. So, for me, I gain as much as they gain because learning from them.
[00:29:31] So, that's one way. If I see that it's truly, truly an interesting piece of technology, then it's in my best interest to talk to them and listen, even if it's for the future. And the other one is if they really understood a need 'cause the signals are out there. I mean, I, I, I speak, I give a lot of interviews.
[00:29:52] I talk in conferences, so it, it will be very easy to identify what are the opportunities and what are the struggles and the challenges. So if, if someone is very smart and can capture, "That brand is struggling with this, and this is a capability that I can solve." And they can put together a very smart elevator pitch and say, "Hey, I know you're struggling with this, and I have these capabilities that do that."
[00:30:17] And, and then for credibility, "Working with this, and this, and this brand." That's a pitch that is this short. But it just get the attention of, uh, of a marketer that is interested in solving a problem.
[00:30:31] Daniel Weiner: You'll have to let me know if people start referencing this podcast once it's released to, uh, to message you and stuff like that. But no, I mean, I appreciate you taking the time to chat with me, truthfully. I know, uh, you know, I typically interview VPs and CMOs, and I know how busy they are. So, uh, without sounding like a suck-up, I am appreciative of the time that you've devoted to this, so, uh, no, I appreciate it.
[00:30:50] Couple more questions for you on the agency stuff, and then we'll, we'll get into a couple fun ones to close out. But we've talked a lot about positives and negatives and stuff. Can you think of just a really, over the course of your career, not even necessarily now, but a really great agency experience you've had and what made it so great?
[00:31:05] Ivonne Kinser: You mean like me in the agency or me as a client?
[00:31:10] Daniel Weiner: As a client working with, as a brand working with an agency, a particular experience that's been especially positive, that stands out to you.
[00:31:17] Ivonne Kinser: I mean, I wouldn't make justice if I name just one. I think that,um, it has the, the nine, almost nine years that I have been with Avocados From Mexico with, you know, my, my roster of agencies. I think that every day is a great day when I work with them. I mean, our agencies and the people that work in them, I think that there's a friendship developed, and I'm really, really thankful of the passion and the effort
[00:31:47] that they put into my business and into help me to solve my problems. So, mean, if you ask me, even if I have to make the effort to remember a bad experience, I just don't think that I have had. And that's what, you know, the selection process is so important because you get to, it's like a courtship, I mean, you get to know the people you're gonna work with. And most of our agencies actually have sta, have started with us, with small projects, and they have won their way in because of how they have built the experience in tactics and campaigns and even in the relationships to be part of our organization as a partner.
[00:32:29] Daniel Weiner: I won't even ask you about a negative experience then. But I'm curious, what's something that you think overall agencies oftentimes get wrong, or what's something that you wish more agencies, quote-unquote, got or understood?
[00:32:42] Ivonne Kinser: So, I would love to have a, like I mentioned at the beginning, someone in the agency, some role within the agency, that, that can look at the full spectrum and identify what is needed and in sample the, the team instead of having to have, for example, uh, briefing meeting with 30 people. So, I think that's an opportunity, that's an important opportunity for agencies.
[00:33:13] And the other one is what I just mentioned also, is just don't forget that people do business with people. So, it is great take care of the business, of course, that's their job, but also take care of the relationship because those are, are very important.
[00:33:29] Daniel Weiner: What are you most excited about in the marketing space currently? In general, it sounds like it's, it's not metaverse, so I won't go there, but in-person events are back. We've got all sorts of new stuff. What are you most pumped about, you know, in 2023 and beyond?
[00:33:43] Ivonne Kinser: I'm very excited about the way that the industry is now moving into a direction where the integration of marketing technology make a, makes a difference. And you are seeing that more and more because, I think, that's, if I look at me, personally managing a brand, if I look at my capabilities, and my passions are kind of in the intersection of creativity and technology and data. And you are seeing more and more in how those three are coming together. And that was not the case before. But right now, you're seeing how technology has, is becoming an enabler and, uh, to accelerate the performance of tech campaigns.
[00:34:31] And I think that the brands and the agencies that can build that capability of looking at those three forces together and count how they make each other stronger are the ones that are gonna thrive. So, I'm very excited about that because the development of technology is not stopping anytime soon.
[00:34:51] So, when you look at the future and the possibilities that can come with that, I think that we are going to see in the industry an unprecedented moment where that is only compatible with the, when the internet came along. And I have been doing digital market since 2000. So, I have seen that, how that changed marketing, which by the way, when I graduated the internet didn't exist.
[00:35:17] So, I saw that people tell moments, and I'm seeing that again with the new technologies coming to really disrupt the marketing industry.
[00:35:28] Daniel Weiner: Yeah, that's great perspective. What keeps you up at night from a marketing or business standpoint?
[00:35:33] Ivonne Kinser: Uh, so many things. If I have to think about one is, there's one area in digital marketing that is extremely important, in marketing in general, extremely important. That is the, the utilization of data to understand the consumers at the more deeper level and individual level. And I think that's the new frontier, but how we prove to the stakeholders the value of the investments in that space is still very challenge.
[00:36:05] And it's not challenging for us, that, for me, that we, it is a small brand. I mean, I have talked to multi-billion dollar CPG companies that are trying to figure out the same. So, I think that's a challenge that is not taking my sleep at night, I think that is a challenge that is taking the sleep of the whole industry. But very hopeful that, as an industry, we're going to figure that out very soon.
[00:36:31] Daniel Weiner: Avocados From Mexico is lucky to have you with your, uh, hand on the pulse of all of this stuff. The, the data stuff is interesting. I, you're the, uh, I think the 22nd episode of this podcast as it is currently. And I talk to a lot of CMOs and VPs about that as well, like attribution and just data in general.
[00:36:49] And, like, skating the line of, if you attempt to measure legitimately everything and attribute literally everything, you oftentimes lose creativity or you, it's just harder to be creative. So, skating that line of what you said, yeah, like giving a board visibility and justifying an investment while still doing
[00:37:07] creative stuff, and pushing the envelope, and testing, and measuring, and all of that sort. So, uh, yeah, it's a challenging position to be in, I feel for you.
[00:37:14] Ivonne Kinser: Yeah, no, totally. And you say so, right? I mean, it's like, that's what I specifically says that that's the, the opportunity is that interception between creativity, data, and technology. Because, yes, you cannot sacrifice creativity to be too like data-oriented, but you have to bring those three elements together, and that's what give you really, really powerful output.
[00:37:41] Daniel Weiner: Well, I hope you sleep reasonably well moving forward now that the,uh, Super Bowl, uh, era is complete for now. But, uh, we'll finish with a couple fun ones. I'm curious, I ask everybody, uh, what was your very, very, very first job as a kid, or young adult or?
[00:37:55] Ivonne Kinser: Oh, man. My first job was, I have an uncle in Venezuela that owns like a school supply company and I was processing the invoices. I was the invoice processor.
[00:38:09] Daniel Weiner: I was gonna say, does that translate into what you're doing now? But hopefully, you're not processing too many invoice. You're just paying invoices super quick for all of your vendors 'cause you're such a wonderful client.
[00:38:19] Ivonne Kinser: Yeah. No, that didn't translate at all.
[00:38:23] Daniel Weiner: What would your final meal be if you had to pick?
[00:38:26] Ivonne Kinser: Ooh, I should say an avocado.
[00:38:29] Daniel Weiner: I was gonna say that's, that's the, that's the, uh, the popular answer. Well, if, if it couldn't be an avocado or something to compliment the avocado?
[00:38:37] Ivonne Kinser: Uh, maybe it could be, I try to limit my carbs, but if it was my last meal, I will eat a pizza.
[00:38:45] Daniel Weiner: Carbs are the enemy. I, I try as well, but pizza is, uh, hard to say no to. And then, my final question for you, who is somebody who inspires you personally, professionally, or both?
[00:38:56] Ivonne Kinser: Oh, I think there's so many people in this industry inspiring me that I don't, I mean, I have a few in mind, actually. I'm gonna work with a controversial one.
[00:39:06] I may not agree with a lot of the things he does and especially in the side of corporate culture, but I am a huge fan of his intellect. Can you guess who is, who I'm talking about?
[00:39:26] Daniel Weiner: No, truthfully.
[00:39:28] Ivonne Kinser: Elon Musk. I really like his philosophy of, in terms of technology and, and business. And I'm, 100% disagree with the way he runs the culture. So, I have this, uh, conflictive admiration and, and, and relationship with. But I, is my hat off to the way he think about business and about technology integration and, and a lot of things that I'm a big fan of.
[00:40:00] And I have really paid attention to the words that he said that kind of translate what he has in his mind. And I think that he's just very inspiring and, and definitely a genius.
[00:40:14] Daniel Weiner: Yeah, he definitely, I will say, uh, love him or hate him, he gets people thinking and talking, and that's, in my opinion, almost always a good thing. But, uh, yeah, I'm with you, the culture stuff is interesting to read about. Being a business owner myself now, obviously at an astronomically smaller scale, like I find myself sometimes being like, "Do I agree with that?" But now I can't wrap my head around virtually all of the culture stuff.
[00:40:37] Ivonne Kinser: Yeah. I will never, ever, ever work for him. I mean, not for $10 million. I will not work for him. But I will give anything to sit with him over lunch and to speak his friend. I wouldn't say I will, I will listen to every single word and just soak it in because I think he has a brilliant mind.
[00:40:56] Daniel Weiner: Well, if I can get Elon on the podcast, I'll tell him that you want to meet and, uh, see if I can set that up for you. But, uh, no, this was wonderful, truthfully. I really appreciate you coming on. And, yeah, what's one final, uh, plug for Avocados From Mexico? Anything exciting that people should check out or anything you want to, uh, pump while you're here?
[00:41:13] Ivonne Kinser: We're always doing some exciting stuff. We are, right now, choose planning mode and just building the ideas for what is gonna be our next fiscal year. But we are, you know, very centered in innovation that matters and how we leverage the collective creativity and innovation, innovative spirits of every employee across the organization to just solve the problems that we have and face the opportunity that we have.
[00:41:44] So, so, it's a very stimulating process that we're going through. So, yeah, wait for it. You're gonna see a lot more innovation from Avocados From Mexico.
[00:41:56] Daniel Weiner: Good. I can't wait to see it. Thank you so much for joining us.
[00:41:58] Ivonne Kinser: Thank you.