Matthew Kobach - VP of Marketing at Slice, on Pizza, Passion, and the rise of the creator/influencer

YouShouldTalkTo - Matt Kobach

Matt Kobach: [00:00:00] if you do not understand who our customer is and you don't understand what our product is, you can't. Help us market it. It's that simple, like you need to understand what we do inside and out.

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Daniel Weiner: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the You Should Talk to podcast. I am your host, your sponsor, your everything. You should talk to pairs, brands, and marketers for free, with vetted agencies and or freelancers for virtually any marketing or a tech need. Because finding [00:01:00] great agencies and freelancers is a pain in the ass.

Today I am super excited to be joined, uh, by my neighbor. We just found out, uh, Matt Kobach, who is VP of Marketing at Slice. Matt, how are we.

Matt Kobach: I am doing phenomenal and it's not a hundred degrees here. Since we're neighbors, we know how hot it is. So I was a little

Daniel Weiner: not yet. Not, not yet. saw Saturdays, uh, oh. The, the feels like could be 115. So

Matt Kobach: Oh fine. Nevermind then.

Daniel Weiner: yeah. Sorry for, sorry for bursting. Your bubble today is not so, so bad. So

Matt Kobach: Yeah.

Daniel Weiner: sweet. Let's jive right in. Uh, first of all, tell, tell my audience what exactly is Slice.

Matt Kobach: Yeah. Uh, I love talking to like marketing people about Slice, 'cause I've got a really good analogy that resonates with, um, with marketing, uh, the marketing industry. So, before I joined Slice, I thought it was no different than an Uber Eats a DoorDash. I thought it was a third party delivery marketplace.

Daniel Weiner: think, I think I thought that the same before researching you as

Matt Kobach: Yeah. Uh, well, we really are, we're HubSpot for independent shops.[00:02:00] Um, there, what we do is we digitize as many of the shops orders as possible. So this can be from a marketplace app that we have, but it also can be from a website. It also can be from a register if someone walks in.

Uh, and we're actually also making a phone product, so if someone calls in, we can actually even digitize that order. And what that allows us to do is, one, you now have all this information in one. Spot that either the shop can leverage, normally it's sliced leveraging on their behalf. But now I know now you know, things like what are the most popular menu items?

When do these menu items sell the most? What are the days where you're doing the lease volume and maybe you need to add a promo to get more people in the door. Um, same with maybe time of year. Uh, so there's a lot of information that shops are not leveraging that they could leverage to get some of their customers in the door more often.

And then the more interesting part, We actually have that data now we have that information to remarket to their current customers. So it is a lot harder to get a net new customer to buy from you than it is to get a current customer to order [00:03:00] from you, to buy from you, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 more times a year. And that's what we do.

So, You've got those third party apps that are really good at discovery, and you pay 30% for that discovery. That's actually a pretty good deal. You know, it's hard to get a new customer and paying 30% for that is kind of worth it. The problem is if this is a loyal customer, somebody's coming to you 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 times, now that 30% doesn't make any more sense.

And so you wanna transition someone who is a current customer into the slice ecosystem as quickly as possible. 'cause we do not charge nearly as much as that, and we're remarketing to that person to go back to that specific shop. So it's not, Hey, you know, Daniel order from Slice again. It's, Hey Daniel, order from your favorite shop again.

And we don't even mention our name. And so it feels like a much more direct relationship with your favorite, uh, pizzeria shops.

Daniel Weiner: I love it and I love HubSpot, so I really appreciate

Matt Kobach: Yeah.

Daniel Weiner: Uh, let's dive right in. What's your unpopular or spicy take you have in the, uh, the marketing world in general, or a marketing hill you're willing to die on?[00:04:00] 

Matt Kobach: Yeah, one of, okay, I got one. So I cut my teeth on social media. So I got into the industry, uh, via social media as over a decade ago now, but one thing I don't get is organic social media that like serves no purpose other than to be a glorified ad. I think the company is wasting their time. I think if that's the kind of content you're making, you're wasting your time.

Uh, I just don't think. Anyone really wants to watch that or does watch it. And I think the, uh, social media platforms are incentivized to give you data that misleads you into thinking people are watching, sharing, consuming that in any meaningful way. Now, I do think there is absolutely a spot for organic social media, and I think there's a spot for that type of content to be paid content, but I think a lot of people, Are, you know, not they're lying to themselves to some degree if they think people want to watch glorified ads.

And so whether that means you don't [00:05:00] focus your energy there or it means like you've gotta refigure your strategy, I just think a lot of companies are doing it incorrectly. I. Mm-hmm.

Daniel Weiner: 'cause I was like, nobody gives a shit what I post on Instagram about my company and these stupid things.

And I was doing it just for the sake of doing it. And I, uh, I felt a weight lifted once I stopped doing that.

Matt Kobach: Yeah, and it's also, I will say from a personal brand versus like an actual brand, it's easier to argue from a personal brand, but it's really hard to create that compelling of content on a regular basis. Uh, I do like the forcing yourself to post daily because it just forces yourself to work. It just forces you like, You're gonna post a lot of crap, but there will be some good stuff in there.

And then you end up kind of realizing what the good stuff is and then you're able [00:06:00] to make the good stuff even better. So I get it from there. But like, you know, if you're a auto loan company, like do you really need that much organic content? Like you need customers, you need to get 'em to your website.

And I just don't know that like people are sharing that

Daniel Weiner: You are the only type of company that I can make a case for. Everybody loves pizza. Nobody's gonna say no to 

Matt Kobach: I agreed. I I, and, and it's funny, so I say this and I'm literally hiring a pizza influencer to make organic pizza content. 'cause I think this is the right industry to leverage something like that. But what I have told every person who's applied for this role, I do not care about anyone downloading our app.

Or ordering through our app because of the content that you're creating. I literally only care about impressions. So make content that people are gonna dmm their friends so that we can get more awareness for our brand. That is all I care about.

Daniel Weiner: It sounds like a dream job. Are you still, hi. You're actively hiring for that right now.

Matt Kobach: Still hiring. If you get, if you, I don't know when this goes live, but if you are [00:07:00] listening, odds are, I have not made.

The, uh, hire yacht, and I can tell you exactly what I'm looking for. If you are the type of person who wants to be like a director of marketing, this is not the role for you. If you are the type of person who wants to host the prices, right, someday this is the role for you. You wanna be the next Mr. Beast, this is the role for you.

Uh, and we are looking at this as like a springboard for that. Like, come on, come onto our platform, make amazing content, build your own personal brand, and then hopefully one day. You get a call from CBS to host the prices, right, or SNL calls you or your YouTube videos are blowing up and you leave and it will be no hard feelings.

And I will send you tons of pizza as a partying gift.

Daniel Weiner: I love it. Uh, your current role is as VP of marketing, and I'd argue you, as I just mentioned, get to work on maybe the coolest thing that you can market. I was gonna say puppies would be, uh, would be number one. You mentioned you come from social, uh, looks like you come from finance a little bit as well.

New York Stock Exchange, Intercontinental Exchange. Can you talk a little bit about your career journey? Uh, but also I'm particularly [00:08:00] interested. Since you've been on the marketing side, what's the biggest shift you've seen in consumer behavior, uh, between different industries, especially I assume people buy, uh, pizza a little differently than they, uh, invest their money.

Matt Kobach: Uh, that is true. So, uh, so I'll, I'll go through kind of like how I ended up here being a pizza boy. 'cause um, it is not a, you know what's funny? It's like no one really ends up having a linear career. I think they think they do, and then he takes all these weird turns and only you look back and you realize like, oh, careers aren't linear

Daniel Weiner: I run, I run a company with a punny name for three years now. So, uh, I'm with you.

Matt Kobach: So I first got into marketing because I actually wasn't even in marketing. I thought I was gonna be an academic. I thought I was gonna be a professor, so I was getting a PhD. And the way PhDs work is you essentially pick a topic and then become an expert in that topic, and then you're known as the expert in that topic.

So you write a bunch of papers and you, you know, it's hopefully people pay you to be the expert in that topic. Um, and I was doing this right when social media was really exploding, and so I thought I was gonna be the social media person. So I did a lot of, uh, research, a lot of studies on it and stuff, and PhDs moved kind of slow.

Uh, if you can't [00:09:00] tell, I talked fast and I, I just moved a little slow for the way that I was like interested in, you know, in my career at that time. So I ended up leaving. But during that time I learned a lot about like how social media worked, and I noticed a lot of how it worked on the business side. So I was like, well, I can do this.

So I started a social media marketing agency and what I ended up doing was working with like local, you know, commodities might be the right kind of way to do it. It was like dentists and like chiropractors and urologists and stuff. It was um, uh, you know, industries that didn't really have brands that they had to worry about.

They just needed customers. They just needed awareness. And so what I could do is I could make some ads for a pediatrician dentist, and then I could take it to the next city over and sell the same ads to them and just buy the ads. And this is like in the heyday of, uh, Facebook marketing. So like any idiot could buy ads and I happened to be any idiot.

Uh, so I did that for a few years and I really liked the creative part of it. And I really hated the chasing down customers and relying on other people and doing [00:10:00] taxes and stuff. And so I was like, where can I go do this full time? And that's how I ended up in Atlanta. So I ended up at Intercontinental Exchange, which, um, shout out to it this Atlanta company that no one knows, that essentially controls the price of gas and coffee and cotton.

And it's just this wild company that no one's ever heard of. They own the New York Stock Exchange. And that's how I ended up there. Uh, and I always took this mentality of like, if I'm gonna do organic social, it better be really, really good. So I had to figure out how to make interesting organic. Uh, energy exchange content and, uh, entertaining financial content.

And it turns out it's actually pretty easy. Like people are interested in this stuff. Uh, part of my job at the New York Stock Exchange was to pitch, uh, private companies who are gonna go public to do it on our exchange. So, you know, you got like, Airbnb, Uber, um, all those companies, like they want to go public and they pick you either the New York Stock Exchange or nasdaq.

And part of my job was to say, Hey, if you come on the New York Stock Exchange, we're gonna create all this content for you. We're gonna get millions of impressions. All eyes are gonna be on you. This is your big coming out party. Everyone's gonna love you if you do it on our side. And I decided I wanted to be on the other [00:11:00] side of that table.

Uh, I knew I wasn't gonna start a company, but I wanted to join companies that had startup or had I p o ambitions. So I joined a startup called Fast. They, uh, if you paid attention to that space, they, you know, uh, you know, crashed and burned pretty famously. But it was a fun ride. It was really interesting.

I joined another startup named, uh, north Beam, and then, uh, the slice opportunity kind of fell in my lap. I'd been friendly with the founder for a little bit. And he told me about what the company actually was and how they were doing and, you know, their business, uh, ambitions. And it was a really easy yes for me.

Uh, so, and I didn't answer your other question at all. I just gave this like, you know, roundabout way how I got here. Uh, the biggest change is, um, buying ads is a lot harder. You have to be a lot savvier of a marketer. You have to have a lot more creative. Like, I was literally making like, Four ads and selling those same four ads across like different cities or different zip codes.

And now it's like you need four ads to launch a campaign or four different pieces of creative to launch a campaign. Um, so it's just [00:12:00] people are, you know, I don't know if savvier is the word, but they're consuming social media content or digital. Content, uh, a little differently. And so you just have to test a lot more things.

You've gotta, um, you know, you've just gotta spend a lot more on the, on the creative assets that are gonna get someone's attention. And then I remember too, like I never even had to think about redirecting to a landing page. It was like you just went there and someone just gave you your information and now you need to think about landing page conversions and optimizing this.

And, um, it was just so much easier back then. And now there's so much more nuance that did not exist, you know, whatever it was 15 years ago.

Daniel Weiner: No, I agree. I actually, uh, my, my claim to social media fame or how I got started, I started in social media as well, was working for Facebook in, uh, 2010 on the self-serve ad platform. And I they, uh, sent me free ad credits to advertise for local business in Sarasota, Florida of all places. And I was like, wow, this is easy.

Like, it was easy kind of, you pushed a couple buttons and like, holy shit, people were seeing this stuff. So, uh. I'm particularly interested, economy's in a weird place. It sounds like you've mentioned two things. You just mentioned, kind of like the performance side, but [00:13:00] you also are, I would say in a, you have the luxury of having a cool brand and pizza focus and stuff.

And you just mentioned this, I say dream job, uh, for somebody where the metrics is impressions, which marketers listening, probably gasp and, uh, say no, we need to tie everything back to, uh, you know, straight r o I and stuff like that. Um, With the economy where it's at. If you're speaking to other CMOs, VPs of marketing, marketing leaders in general, what's your advice to them on kind of that dichotomy of performance versus creativity?

Matt Kobach: Yeah. Uh, it's, so, I don't know that I agree with the premise of the question. So the, the economy where it's at,

Daniel Weiner: You're not allowed to dis, this is my pot. You're not allowed to

Matt Kobach: is there. So I agree that

Daniel Weiner: no, this is good. I like people disagreeing.

Matt Kobach: yeah, well, it's not even that I disagree. It's funny, it's like, People have said that there's gonna be a recession. People have said, the economy's not doing well.

I just don't know that I believe it. It's like everyone is saying it. It's like,

Daniel Weiner: I, I said, I said in flux, I feel like that's a more, uh, you know, uh, [00:14:00] egregious, uh, maybe misrepresentation also.

Matt Kobach: Well, but you know what's funny though, is that like, I think for all intents and purposes though, you're still right. Because what happens is if like everyone's uneasy about the economy now they've pulled back the spending, they're not gonna do the experimental marketing and they're just being a lot more conservative than the otherwise would be.

So to me, that's the interesting part. 'cause like I look at like consumer spending. I look like I can see our own financials. I can see the financials of the other companies that worked at, uh, I, you know, I, like I said, I come from finance so I can, you know, I, I like those kind of things. So I look at those reports.

Um, and certainly there is data that suggests. That, you know, the economy in certain sectors is not doing well. But then we've also like record air travel. It's like people are taking vacations, people are spending money. So to me what this says is like, we actually have less to worry about in that regard than I think is actually true.

And so what I'm currently doing, and maybe I'm giving away my secret, I'm going harder right now. I'm fighting for more budget with this premise. [00:15:00] I'm like, look, I, everyone's talking about how horrible it's, everyone's talking about how they need to like, Batten down the hatches and save for like, this is a lost year in terms of growth.

It's like that's the time to be aggressive. 'cause now ads are gonna be cheaper. The, like, the, the normal kind of everyday boring foundational stuff that you do is actually gonna be more impactful because less people are doing it and you don't have to get as creative. So like, this is the time I think to actually double down.

Like, don't risk your company on it. But if you're asking your board or your C F O or whatever it is, whoever holds the purse strings, this is the time to ask them for more money with obviously a solid plan for growth. It's not just like burn money for the sake of burning it. But my advice to CMOs is like, if you have a way that you think you can grow your customer base or that you can grow your sales, this is a wonderful time to do it because you've got a lot of people who are really scared to spend money right now.

Daniel Weiner: Yeah, I hear some of that. I hear a lot from other folks that they're asking for budget and they're getting budget, but it's. [00:16:00] Not as easy to get it for the experimental stuff like you talked about. And everybody wants to see the surefire plan of, if we spend this, what are we gonna get in return? Uh, what do you think of that?

Any advice for, uh, for getting the experimental budgets in these 

Matt Kobach: yeah, it's tough. Uh, I will say, so the, the pizza influencer role, um, I expect to like tie. Exactly zero r o i to that role. Like it, I, I can't, I'm not gonna, like, I don't care to do the attribution to like figure out, all right, I did some like m m M kind of stuff and like that we saw this jump with this.

Um, and I've made that clear. I was like, it's just gonna be a waste of our time. Like, you either ba you just basically have to accept this I'm blind faith and that like, you hired me to make this decision. Uh, but what you can do is you can kind of look at some data points and, and like make some fair assumptions.

And to me this, uh, pizza influencer role. We named it. This is a content creator. We called it Pizza Influencer because I thought it could get some traditional media pickup. And lo and behold, it got tons and we got millions of impressions on this role and on [00:17:00] Slice. And again, we're kind of going through, we're not going through a rebrand, but we're going through like a repositioning so that people understand what we do.

So I was able to talk to all these media outlets and say, and they're like, oh, slice the third party delivery app. And I would say, no, no, no. The online ordering platform. So it's like a subtle kind of difference, but we're able to like get that now in the story so people kind of can better understand what we do.

Uh, that would've to get, that would've cost me more than this person's salary. So it's like when they go, Hey, is this a success? It's like, well, it all, I haven't even hired the person yet and it sure seems like it is a success. So it's really bringing someone along. It's like, yes, this is art and science and I'm not gonna stop doing the direct response stuff.

I'm also currently hiring someone who is, their job is order growth. And so like that person will have KPIs that I need to measure. But what I want the, you know, my, I report to the C E O, what I want the CEO and the CFO to be looking at is like, how is marketing doing as a whole are orders up that we can attribute to them?

Because I think what the experimental stuff or the hard to measure stuff, I think it impacts the [00:18:00] easier to measure stuff. And so yes, I can't say this is exactly up because of that. But I think that's a shortsighted way to look at marketing.

Daniel Weiner: No, I love it. Uh, having run one yourself, what's your overall opinion of agencies and how do they fit into the ecosystem? I'm there. It's always.

Matt Kobach: Yeah. Uh, so right now they're not a part of our ecosystem. Uh, but that I, it's less strategic. It's not like I'm for or against it in this context. It's that like I needed some time to kind of understand. Where I needed to go and where the company needed to go from a marketing standpoint. And I, I can tell you where, where I don't like agencies or where I don't need agencies, I don't need an agency to tell me that.

Like I wholly believe it is my job to do that. Um, 'cause if I don't have a strong grasp of who we are, who our customers are, who like the best shops that should be on, the best people, we should be ordering. Then I shouldn't be in this role, and so I need to sit and figure that out for a little bit, and I need to figure out [00:19:00] the direction that we're headed and I need to come up with a game plan.

Then I wanna work with an agency to supplement anything that we can't currently do in-house. So a good example is we need to create a series of videos. Um, we could create some of them. Um, I don't know that I wanna create all of 'em. So like I will be going to an agency that can whip out a bunch of, uh, like B two B SaaS videos essentially, because we're a dual-sided marketplace, I need to get shops using our product.

And that's where starting, and I don't know the best way to make that video. I don't know what Sal from Sal's Pizzeria wants to watch. I don't know if he's willing to watch a two minute video or if he wants to watch. A ten second video. And so I need to try a lot of things. And so I need someone that can move fast, produce videos and um, you know, kind of take this idea that's in my head and bring it to life in a more interesting way.

And I think agencies provide interesting perspectives of like how to bring something to life, but like it needs to be internally owned of like what the big vision is. And it's like I need them to maybe come up with a language, but the idea needs to [00:20:00] come from me.

Daniel Weiner: No, I like it. Uh, most marketers I talk to with your title are getting hit up every 12 seconds, uh, by agencies on LinkedIn, Twitter, uh, maybe you saying that you don't currently work with agencies will give you a break, but I highly doubt

Matt Kobach: Or more. Yeah.

Daniel Weiner: I was gonna say, is that case for you?

Matt Kobach: Blood, water. Uh, yeah, certainly. Uh, also too, because where I used to work, we did, um, uh, it was a company called North Beam. They do, um, media buying analytics. And a lot of agencies are media buyers, a lot of performance agencies, so I worked very closely with them. So it's like they, they know who I am.

And so I got hit up when I announced I was going to slice, oh, let us do your ad buying. Let us help with your creative. Let us know what you need. Uh, so certainly there, um, I would say two or three times a week on LinkedIn, two or three times a week on Twitter. Um, and to be honest, the, I, I ignore most of them, not because there's anything wrong with the pitch that they're giving me.

It is 100% based on timing if I don't need what you [00:21:00] offer. Right now I've got seven other things I've gotta focus on. So like, it's just not even, it's, it just can't even like stick in my head. Now if I, in two weeks I'm ready to make those videos and someone pings me on, you Twitter and they give me an example, Hey, here's a video I did for Slack that I think you'd really like, that I think could actually work for the B2B side of Slice was like, that is the right timing.

And I don't know how an agency does that other than just luck, you know, like I don't.

Daniel Weiner: They're gonna listen to this. I can almost guarantee  uh, even mine, I can guarantee you my B two B focused, uh, video agency partners will send a message

Matt Kobach: please. Honestly, let's do it. I, I want, I need, I need it like that, that is a, like, is something like I, I need an, all I want is examples. Like that's literally all I want. Like I don't gimme the name. Like, show me what you can do and let me see if that makes sense for what I've got envisioned in my head.

And if it does, I got some money to spend.

Daniel Weiner: I'll send you some portfolios after this if you promise to send me the screenshots of random agencies with my name in the [00:22:00] subject line and your LinkedIn, which I usually get of her. So the funny part I find about all this outreach, I totally agree. Everybody I ask that question to for the most part.

Some are into like experimenting and like taking random calls, but they'll usually task somebody else on their team with that. But everybody says timing. Uh, I find with this, so this is a perfect example where a video agency could say, Hey, like, we heard you on the podcast. I find everybody stops there.

They don't then give the personalization. They're like, we heard you on the podcast, let's chat. You know, like that's not thing. we heard you wanted examples of website or, uh, videos of companies like Slack and B2B and stuff. It's such an opportunity that most, uh, most people

Matt Kobach: per, if you're gonna reach out, if you're listening to this and, and gonna reach out, personalize it. No. Here I need to get shops to understand what Slice does and that, and it's a B2B SaaS kind of thing, but I'm not selling. To like your normal Balance B2B person, you're selling to someone who spends 16 hours a day on their feet cooking, hosting, and talking to people, running a restaurant, that's a very different [00:23:00] person to sell to than most B2B companies.

So keep that in mind when you're pitching. That's it.

Daniel Weiner: Well, that's totally fair. Uh, in your past life of working with agencies, when you are evaluating vendors, partners, whatever, what are you looking for? How can a vendor stand out outside of what we just talked about?

Matt Kobach: Again, it's funny, I was, because we talked about this a little bit before we recorded, um, one of my favorite relationships with an agency, um, was one that felt like an extension of our own team. It didn't feel like I was giving them orders and they were coming back. They were, they were sitting at, and this is pre pandemic, they were coming to our office once or twice a week.

They, even if we weren't having meetings, They were literally just there so that if we had an idea, we had a thought, or that they could kind of like, they could kind of absorb that information that just kind of gets shouted out, um, in a, in a, you know, uh, work in, in office work environment. And that was really helpful.

This is now all of a sudden, um, and this is back when I was at the New York Stock Exchange 'cause we'd have to do campaigns for. Um, other companies [00:24:00] that were going public and we have had an agency that helped us do that. Um, and it's, it's more nuanced than it thinks. You have to, like, there's certain beats you have to hit, there's certain information you gotta get.

And so having someone who is so ingrained with our day to day and with like our current like marketing structure was unbelievably helpful. And we legitimately consider them part of the team. Like if we would go out for drinks, we're going out for dinner after like they were invited. And so like getting into as many of like these meetings or day-to-day kind of stuff that felt kind of like, why am I here actually ended up being really, really beneficial.

And I, um, we were there for like six months or I was there for, uh, sorry, four years and I think they were the agency of record for the whole whole time I was there. And I. I don't think I, I, I don't know what's happened since, but, um, just having that powerful relationship was, you know, made it last.

Daniel Weiner: That's amazing. On the flip side, can you think of a negative agency experience you've had and what made it so negative?

Matt Kobach: No, no, for sure. It's the ones who don't understand what we do. It's, if you do not understand who our customer is and you don't understand what our [00:25:00] product is, you can't. Help us market it. It's that simple, like you need to understand what we do inside and out. And that's why like I'm hesitant to like work with anyone right now because I'm literally just learning

Daniel Weiner: That's what that's what I was gonna ask though. You, you took the words outta my mouth. Is that, uh, I'm curious, I hear that feedback a lot. Do you expect an agency to, you know, if you were hiring for, I don't know, just call it marketing strategy right now, do you expect an agency I. To fully understand or do you expect them to have the chops to fully understand after working with you for a little bit?

And I usually get split answers if I want people to understand us or no. Like I don't expect somebody to totally understand us at the beginning. And some people are turned off to it when agencies come to the table right away and they're like, we, 'cause it's, they're implying they know you better at something that you're in every second of the day.

I am curious.

Matt Kobach: It is true. I, I think it would likely be how you end up approaching that conversation. If you come in with an attitude, I know more about your business than you do. That's a tough, you know, intro. That's a [00:26:00] tough first step. But if you go in, Hey, I'm familiar with this space. Here's the research I've done on your customers.

Here's the research I've done with about you. I'd love to know what I got, right? I'd love to know what I got wrong. Um, but the people who do their homework always stand out to me. Because everything else feels like a generic spam pitch. So you just, all you've done is copy and paste it, and it's a numbers game to you.

But the person who's like, um, you know, oh, I downloaded the app, I used it, I, I I under, I, you know, like actually this part was kind of clunky. What happened here? Like, I don't get why I would ever use it here. There's not enough shops on what is like the, to someone that like, kind of shows that they're thinking strategically about, it always stands out to me versus someone who just seems like they want more business and they don't care where they get it from.

Daniel Weiner: It's so funny, the bar I find is so low, and that's such good advice, uh, to download the actual app if you're talking to an app, uh, that some people, you know, I get feedback even about my, my agencies are not perfect angels, uh, but I hear all the time of. Largely other agencies. Uh, yeah. You know, we, we talked to them and they had no knowledge of our [00:27:00] product or like our app.

I'm like, tell me they downloaded the app. They're like, nah. They said on the call they had, and I'm like, oh my God. Like lie, you know, never a proponent of lying. I'm like, just say you downloaded the app. You know, like it takes two seconds. That is just wild. Uh, I've seen a bigger shift, especially since Covid, which I think kind of goes.

In line with that, like most of the agencies I work with are called 15 to 200 headcount, independently owned and operated. And even though it's cliche, I'd say hungrier than than most, uh, I've seen bigger named brands moving towards smaller independent agencies, specialized in usually one to two services, something like that.

What do you think of that trend?

Matt Kobach: Yeah. Uh, something I totally do too. And like the, like, it's funny that you mentioned that, 'cause that's been my experience over the past, call it three or four years. Um, I don't know if it's related to Covid and the pandemic and stuff and like, shut down. But like that, it seemed to happen kind of right around then.

And so maybe it's a coincidence, but Absolutely. 'cause again, I, I don't. Want a full marketing plan. I don't, I don't need the full service [00:28:00] thing. What I need is I've got a vision and I go, okay, now I've got like a checklist of seven things I need to get done, and I know the order I want to get them done.

So I need someone to help me knock this first one off the list. And if they, and if an agency can help me do three, four more of 'em, great. But I literally only wanna do this one. I absolutely work in a way that's like, I do not wanna do seven things at once. I have told my team when I joined, you all are doing too much.

Y'all are focused on too many things and we're doing a bunch of things, very averagely. I wanna do three things phenomenally, and if you tell me you're working on a fourth thing or a fifth thing, you better make sure that you have done those first three things perfectly. And like, I think that kind of relates to then the attitude towards an agency.

Like, I don't need to pay for all the other stuff. I don't need, you know, I whatever. Call it like s e m right now from an agency. I literally need help with our value prop and messaging. So if you're not gonna help me with that, then I, you know, it's too soon for the other stuff.

Daniel Weiner: Yeah. I find folks in your role, uh, making the wrong agency [00:29:00] decision is a quick way to, uh, Potentially get fired, but also just to lose credibility, you know, within the organization and stuff like that. For new CMOs, new VPs of marketing, what's your advice to get the most out of their agencies, whether they acquired them, uh, from their predecessor or if they've just hired new agencies?

How do you get the most out of that relationship?

Matt Kobach: Yeah, I, I think you've gotta make it feel like a symbiotic relationship, and so I'm always of the mindset of like, sharing more information as opposed to less. I, I think like, I, I, so from like an agency side, you can fail at the relationship through no fault of your own. If your counterpart on the brand side isn't giving you the information you need, isn't giving you the feedback you need, like you're probably not gonna succeed.

And so

Daniel Weiner: garbage out.

Matt Kobach: Yeah, absolutely. And so like the first thing I would do is like one, I'd want like, let's say inherited, lemme make sure that they have the skillset to do what I need done. lemme make sure this aligns with my vision, and [00:30:00] then bring them along in the vision. Explain to like, here's why I'm making these decisions.

Here's the like insights I have that are leading me to want to go this direction or to do this initiative. I think understanding the why. Is really important for creating really, really good content or really, really good, whatever it is, fill in the blank. Because if you don't know the why, like you're kind of just like, it becomes like a color by numbers a little bit, and you can pick the wrong color you don't like, you don't know why you're picking blue, and so you pick the wrong shade of blue.

But when you know, oh, I'm, you know, coloring in this one specific flower, I know that exact shade. I can make this really, really accurate. Really, really good. Now you've got a much stronger relationship. And so I'd like to think of it so much more as a partnership. Um, if you've got a relationship where it's, Hey, I need this done, and it's a task and you're just like using them as a, you know, basically an admin kind of level.

Like it, it. I don't think it's ever gonna be fruitful or, or, you know, at the very least, know that going into it and know that it's a very [00:31:00] superficial relationship that, you know, is, is very transactional.

Daniel Weiner: Yeah, I, unfortunately, I see both ends of the spectrum brands using agencies as true thought partners who are involved every step of the way and some more as like execution partners. And yeah, it seems like simple advice, but it's true. Like I could, you know, draw to, uh, draw parallels to so many different situations or the feedback I get from brands when they're leaving agencies like, yeah, they just don't seem like.

They give a shit about their business, um, is the most common that I get.

Matt Kobach: Yeah. I, I want someone obsessed with Slice. When I talk, like I hope I, I hope my passion comes through on this podcast when I'm talking internally to people and I'm talking externally to people. Like, I get really excited about what this platform can do because it literally helps local, independent mom and pop shops like succeed or fail.

And so I want someone who's like as bought in to the possibilities of this. Like I don't think you have to be like bought into the mission or all this, but you have to be bought into the fact that like, This legitimately helps [00:32:00] people or helps shops. And so if they don't have that kind of like same level of passion, and that's where the disconnect's gonna kind of be.

And so they gotta drink the Kool-Aid a little bit.

Daniel Weiner: Yeah, that kind of goes in line with bigger companies moving towards independent agencies. That's a common thing. I get bigger companies who have worked bigger agencies, they're usually at the bottom end of that agency's, uh, budget threshold. You know, so if I don't know, 50 grand a month, With a big agency that's tiny, small fries to them.

Whereas an independent agency for 50 grand a month, you get, you know, an astronomical amount of work. And also genuine pa you know, I'm, I'm not, uh, naive to the fact that money can, uh, create some passion out of an agency 'cause it affords them the ability to grow and do stuff like that. Uh, but yeah, to your point, like.

You, uh, agencies would be, uh, wise to take that advice of showing up passionate about their clients and their brands and wanting them to win. And it's such a low, uh, barrier of effort to literally download the app and say, Hey, poked around, we saw know, I'm also a big proponent of not making too many [00:33:00] assumptions of, Hey, we downloaded the app and we have 20 things we'd like to tell you on a first call.

'cause who the hell knows what's going on in the business? But yeah, there's so many, uh, Just low hanging fruit, uh, for agencies to appear passionate and show up on these calls.

Matt Kobach: I, I'll tell you the, my favorite pitch I've gotten so far has been from someone who goes, Hey, I downloaded the app and I went to my local pizza place and I noticed they weren't on there. So I went and talked to 'em about it and asked him why. I was like, oh, that's good like that. Like that was, you know, and, and they got a free p, not a free, they had to pay for pizza, but they got a pizza outta it.

Um, like

Daniel Weiner: what, what the answer? Why the, why was the pizzeria not on it?

Matt Kobach: Uh, you know what I mean? I, I think they maybe never heard of it. I honestly don't even remember. Um, but like, it was, like, it was funny, is like, the answer to me didn't matter. The fact that like, you're essentially doing market research before, like that was the like kind of above and beyond that I'm looking for in a way to stand out.

And what's funny too is like, this is the type of thing that, like, it works the same as like a job opening. The best, like, we'll go back to the pizza influencer. The best applications are the ones who made, [00:34:00] like, they did do a video, uh, application to, to apply the ones that did the best. The ones who went over the top, they went to their local pizza place and they did an interview or they did some cool unique thing and it's like that's the way to stand out in life.

And so like, I don't know why you wouldn't do it as an agency that like wants to, you know, get a really attractive client. And I'm biased. I think Slice is a really attractive client. If you're in the Northeast, everyone knows Slice. And if you're not, my job is to bring it, like we don't have the same penetration in other areas.

My job is to bring that penetration, and I solely 100% believe that we will be as well known as an Uber Eats or a DoorDash. And so like this is a chance to like work with a, like, like a company with really strong growth that has product market fit. That's literally just bringing it to other cities Now.

Daniel Weiner: Yeah, I think, uh, I, to play devil's advocate to, to advocate for the agency side of that, I feel for them because I talk to, you know, an incredible amount of CMOs and VPs and it's usually split. Half on your side. Yeah. I want an agency to go above and beyond and like, [00:35:00] you know, show that they want it and plenty of others who don't want agencies to make assumptions and want, again, I don't fault them a more straightforward, boring process, which is why sometimes when people ask for usually specifically to like creative.

When people ask me for creative agencies, we talk through it. A lot of the times I ask the question, are you looking to like win an award or are you looking to just like execute on some stuff? More times than not, it's like, oh, like probably just execute on some stuff, but like, it sounds a little more boring.

I'm like, it's okay to be boring on some stuff. Like that's, if that's the truth, those are the, you know, and they're different kinds of agencies and stuff like that. So, uh, I feel for the, that's why my overall coaching to every agency out there is know your audience more 

Matt Kobach: Yeah, that's 

Daniel Weiner: You know, Matt Kobach wants people to go above and beyond, show up in a frigging pizza suit for all, uh, for all, you know.

I'm being serious though, you know, shoot the shot.

Matt Kobach: Mm-hmm.

Daniel Weiner: What's, uh, what's something you think most agencies get wrong or something you wish they quote unquote, got more?

Matt Kobach: Um, you know what? I honestly, I think you just said it. I think it's this really like know your [00:36:00] audience. 'cause what resonates with you if someone's pitching you is gonna be different than what resonates with me. And again, it might take a little research and you might have to honestly like kind of pivot your approach like in real time.

Um, and it might be the difference between like what the follow-up is like first not 'cause you don't necessarily know until you kind of. I can like meet and talk to someone, but that like this idea that there is no like one set approach that's gonna like work really well. It's, you can even tell like the, the, um, uh, there's funny, there's this quote I like from Rory Sutherland.

That's like the opposite of a good idea is also often a good idea. Like you kind of think like, oh, this one really good thing works. So this idea that like you need to be super personalized and custom with me, where the other person's like, no, I just want like the information given to me as quickly as possible, and I'll make the decision that way.

But both of those can be great tactics. It just depends who the audience is.

Daniel Weiner: I totally agree. What are you most excited about in the marketing space at the moment

Matt Kobach: so I, I am so excited about this pizza influencer. This is one thing in [00:37:00] social media I have never understood. I don't get why companies aren't trying to make more influencers like company influencers. The only like response I ever get is like, well, what if they leave? And I think that's such a good problem to have.

Like, what if we make this person the face and they leave and then we're stuck with nothing? And it's like, If they leave, it's because they were so successful and they made a name for themselves. They're like, I, and I'll gladly go through the process of hiring again, because if they're successful, it means our brand was successful.

So I, uh, um, I, this is literally what I did at the New York Stock Exchange. So I, I was working from there. I was working for the, like, parent company for two years in Atlanta, and it became clear, it was like the biggest opportunities for the New York Stock Exchange. And so I transferred to New York. And there's all these cool celebrities and CEOs and world leaders that were coming in there every day.

It was like, this is such an opportunity. And so I remember I pitched my boss. I was like, Hey, I just need to like film all this stuff all the time. Whenever someone's cool, we gotta film it. We gotta figure [00:38:00] out how to like edit it and then put it up. She's like, yeah, of course. And then I said, I also think we need like a host, we need someone to like kind of walk people through this.

Like some of these are like really complex financial information. Like it just can't be done with like a, someone pointing a camera and you know, Collecting data that, or collecting video that way. Um, and I was like, I don't, can we hire a host or something? And she's like, no, there's no way you can hire a host.

No. I was like, well then like, can I be the host? And she's like, yeah, sure, of course. And so it led to me, it was funny, like I remember when we started Snapchat was really big and Snapchat was private and we really wanted Snapchat to listen to the New York Stock Exchange. So we went all in on Snapchat.

And it was so successful, I would be on the subway in New York and people would recognize me and go, that's the N Y S C Snapchat guy. And I, again, I don't get why other companies aren't doing this, like make one or two people the face of your brand, especially if you have a brand or an industry that lends itself to organic content.

[00:39:00] And that's 100% what I'm doing with this pizza influencer. I want to get an army of freelance pizza influencers across different cities. I want this person based in New York. Um, don't have to be, but ideally. And then I want someone to do it in Atlanta. I want someone to do it in Denver and Phoenix and San Francisco because there's all these really cool, you know, people and shop owners and different foods and stuff to, to highlight.

So that, that's, that's what I don't get. I think like organic content could be really interesting and really good. You've just gotta like, Hand over the keys to let someone else be the face of the company on social media.

Daniel Weiner: That's, that's why I was gonna say, I think I know why everybody hasn't bought in fully yet. 'cause they wanna see you fail first or be successful first. Uh, before they say so that they can, if it ends up not working out for them, uh, they weren't the first ones to do it. People are scared. It's non-traditional.

I would say. I'm starting to see a lot more brands. Uh, try to figure it out. Uh, I think that is a common one. Who's gonna be our hero? Who's gonna be in all of these videos and stuff like that? And also one, [00:40:00] which I go back and forth on, is, to your point, not everybody has necessarily a budget for multiple.

So they want, uh, a little bit more diversification of audience and would rather give, uh, you know, a little bit of money to more micro influencers than making like a full-time hire. But I think it's brilliant. I've grown my entire business. This from organic, uh, social media content, uh, for the most part among other things, but, uh,

Matt Kobach: know what's funny? You know the other reason when I was at the New York Stock Exchange that I, it was always a, um, I, I was internally, it was not a smashing success. There was like some, I don't get why, why he's doing it. Why does he always have to be on, what is he after? What's his goal? I was like, I don't have some ulterior motive.

My goal is to make content that people wanna watch and share. And the questions I got is like, we keep getting all these media requests for Matt. How come they're not asking for a president? It's like, shouldn't he be making content that like, get that highlights our president? I was like, our president doesn't wanna do this.

Daniel Weiner: was gonna say, tell president to come join. You'd probably have him.

Matt Kobach: yeah. [00:41:00] Like, I'd gladly do this, but the, like, I'm working with the materials I've got and it's like, we'll figure out how to, how to get them. More camera time. I was like, I'm getting as much as I can. Like, I, I don't, I don't know what else to do. And so it's funny. So like even internally, like you need, like, you could have someone who's kind of a squeaky wheel internally that's kind of threatened by that person being so prominently the face when they think it should be a different C-suite.

I.

Daniel Weiner: I completely agree. I think most companies who aren't, uh, figuring out a way to enable their employees even on a small scale to post on social media and some are incentivizing them to do so, are missing a huge opportunity as well, especially on the B2B side, the LinkedIn crowd like. I mean, it's wild.

Like when I see company logos, I think of the person who's po, I think of their names. Lavender's a really good example. I dunno if you follow them. They're in Atlanta on LinkedIn. Will Ridge, you know, I could name their entire staff, uh, from what they post on social media.

Matt Kobach: It's, it's so funny. I don't get it either. I don't get why you don't empower every employee who wants to, to create content on behalf of the [00:42:00] company. The logic being is we don't trust them. They're gonna post something where they're gonna post something off brand. It's like, why did you hire them if you don't trust them?

Like they're not gonna post something. They may post something that's like a little on the line or not quite right. Like I've got an example, I don't, I don't know if this guy's listening or not, but we've got someone who creates pizza content that is in sales at Slice. And the content he post that he creates is great for the most of the time.

And he does like pizza ratings. And we had to say like, Hey, I love everything. I, I can't have you rate in the pizza shops. 'cause I don't want one shop asking me why they got a nine and the other one got a seven. So like, keep doing what you're doing, but just like change this one thing. And like, it wasn't some awkward conversation.

It was like, cool, like this is a net positive for us. Like, let's just like take it as we get it and adjust as we need.

Daniel Weiner: Maybe that's the answer to my, uh, final marketing question for you. I was gonna ask what, uh, keeps you up at night from a marketing or business standpoint?

Matt Kobach: Oh no. Sales. It's, it's, it's sales. I want, like, what I wanna do is I've got all, I've got this plan. If that number is not going up and to the right, uh, that's all I care about. So,[00:43:00] um, whether or not I can track all this is, you know, secondary. But I need to see more shops onboard than, you know, the previous year when I was here or like whatever the comparison is.

I need to see more orders per shop. I need to see more orders per person. I need to see more app downloads. Um, that's the stuff that I care about. And I think a lot of marketers likely do themselves the disservice by not agreeing that those are the objectives. Like I tell my pizza influencer, your job is impressions.

I am not gonna report impressions to my c e o. Like if he caress, I'll tell him. course, but I want, like, I wanna say look at how many new shops we got. Look how many orders are up 20% on average. Like that's the stuff that I care about. And you know, it's a combination of sales and customer success, uh, and marketing and go to market that are doing it.

But like those are what I'm aiming for. And if I'm doing stuff after six months that has not impacted that, then I've gotta go back to the drawing board. 'cause something's not clicking.

Daniel Weiner: No, totally fair. Is that usually this is, [00:44:00] well, I won't hold you to this, to this answer, is six months, uh, generally like your testing threshold. I'm sure it depends. I'm just curious. I so many people ask me like, oh yeah, we want to test this for 90 days. I'm like, I don't that can test that for 90 days.

Like,

Matt Kobach: Yeah. Uh, that's fair. I, I'll be honest, six months was somewhat of an arbitrary number. Um, the only reason I said six months is I, um, it's funny, I literally, before this podcast, I was on a call with my team giving them like, I've got a 24 month plan, and one part of the plan is this B2B part that needs to be up in six months.

And so like, that's kind of the six month timeline I've given myself. And um, and, and again, it's somewhat arbitrary, but it's like, How much time do I need to realistically do this and do it really well before I can move on to the next thing? Um, and so there's some things that you can test that are short, that are like a little more direct response.

Then there's some things that are more likely, like kind of brand focused, for lack of a better term, that's gonna have a longer lag and it's gonna be harder to measure, um, in a short period of time.

Daniel Weiner: Nice. We'll wrap up with a couple fun ones. What was your very first job?

Matt Kobach: Uh, very like not professional, like [00:45:00] even as a kid, uh, as a golf caddy.

Daniel Weiner: Golf caddy. Does equate to anything you're doing today? Customer service? I

Matt Kobach: no, it taught, it taught me. I, it taught me I didn't wanna be a golf caddy. I hated it. Yeah. 

Daniel Weiner: are now. You're doing 

Matt Kobach: I, I had a similar one. I also mowed lawns. My dad owned a, uh, lawn mowing company, and so I mowed lawns and I will say the one thing that I did take from there, it, it sounds silly, I'd mow lawn and he taught me to like, take pride in how good the lawn looked.

And so like if we missed, if we were driving away from a lawn and we missed a spot, he'd literally get out, take out the weed whacker and like get that spot that he missed. And there was a certain satisfaction of like leaving a lawn just perfect, just spotless. And it wasn't about the lawn. It was like I did as good as I could do and that looks freaking awesome.

And so like that's something that it's really nice to carry through your career is to say, I know I made that video, or I did that campaign to the best of my ability, and that looks really, really good.

Daniel Weiner: Yeah. And taking pride in whatever you do. Uh, I'm curious if you'll answer this next question, but I'll answer it anyways. Uh, if you, if you had to have one [00:46:00] slice for the rest of your life, what is it

Matt Kobach: Uh, like what style?

Daniel Weiner: style? I was gonna ask for the pizzeria, but I don't know if you're

Matt Kobach: oh, oh, no. Oh, of course. Oh, I've got favorites. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, no, no. So I grew up in Milwaukee. Uh, and I am, my goal at Slice is to get Milwaukee style pizza in the same conversation. There's three main styles. There's New York style. We all know

Daniel Weiner: Chicago and Detroit.

Matt Kobach: Chicago and Detroit.

Milwaukee is the fourth style, but no super thin. It's like crispy cracker. It's uh, an oval and it's cut into squares. So, you know the style, like some people call it St. Louis style. Some people call it

Daniel Weiner: That's what I, that's what I know it as. From Emo's Pizza, I believe.

Matt Kobach: Yeah, so I'm trying to get it to Milwaukee style. That's the pizza I grew up on. So that is the style of pizza.

That's my favorite. And my, and uh, part of the reason that pizza's so powerful is like, we all have that nostalgic place that we went to, like, so I, it's called Ballast Straw. It's where I went to with my family. It's where, whenever I'm back in Milwaukee, I go [00:47:00] to that spot. I make sure to make a point of it and like, it doesn't matter if it's like, it's funny, I take people there.

They're like, it's fine. And they don't have all the nostalgia of that, like built in like And so like there's something special about eating your hometown pizza that like gets, it makes it be its favorite. Um, as far as Atlanta, we're both Atlanta. I love Glide Pizza.

Daniel Weiner: my favorite. I was hoping you said that. I think they are. I don't know what they're doing. There's something in that dough. I have never had a, from New York originally and I think they rival some of the best pizzas in New York City as well. they're conne and they're in my building, so it's even more dangerous.

Matt Kobach: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Love 'em. Big fan of them.

Daniel Weiner: Anything else in Atlanta?

Matt Kobach: Um, Fellini's is what I go to. Um, that's about Yeah. I need to get fell. I need to get Fellini's on Slice. They're the perfect Slice candidate. So if anyone from Fellini's is listening to this, I will pay you a couple thousand dollars to join Slice.

I don't know that I have this authority, but I I could make an exception to get the most popular pizza joint in Atlanta on Slice. [00:48:00] So let's figure it out. If you know someone from Fellini's, contact me. If you are Fellini's, contact me.

Daniel Weiner: Glide on Slice.

Matt Kobach: What's

Daniel Weiner: Glide is on slice.

Matt Kobach: Glide isn't Unsliced Glide Glides an interesting one because we really do well for like.

They, they would actually be a good, um, uh, like prospect shop or a good shop that would like fit us. We're really good for people who like call ahead and take out and glide ends up being a lot more kind of sit down. Um, you go in there, you, it's like a slice. I, you go in there order, but yeah, if you're from Glide, I'll also make the same deal as Fell's.

I love you. Get on Slice. order on Slice?

Daniel Weiner: I, unless they lied to me. I had the very first slice at glide their new location. I showed up early to their opening he was like, you want to try to make sure the oven works? I was like, I will take your, uh, trial slice of pizza. So

Matt Kobach: Do you get, do you get the ranch from them?

Daniel Weiner: it's the most sexual ranch I've ever

Matt Kobach: I don't get it.

Daniel Weiner: What?

Matt Kobach: I don't, no, no, no, no. Sorry. I don't get why it's so good. I don't get like, I like. No, no, it's phenomenal. Sorry. I meant like I don't, don't how they have made the world's best [00:49:00] Ranch. Like it is something special if you are in Atlanta. Go to Glide. They're gonna, if you get a pizza, they give you a free side at ranch.

If you get the whole pizza, if you get just a slice, you have to order it. Make sure to order the ranch. We literally get extra and then we use it throughout the week

Daniel Weiner: too for

Matt Kobach: I like, yeah, Uhhuh. It's that good. I, it is. It is the best ranch I've ever had.

Daniel Weiner: It's so weird. Yeah, I love it as well. This is just a glide, uh, fan account now, so

Matt Kobach: We will get Glide to sponsor the podcast. I'll, I'll buy, I'll do a Glide pizza party again. I'll pay for a pizza party glide. You do on, I'll buy out. I'll buy everyone that comes in that day, a slice. I will get you on Slice.

Daniel Weiner: know guy at Glide a little bit. Rob. I'll send this, I'll send this him or stop by next time I'm there and tell him he should, uh, contact you.

Matt Kobach: I love it. You know the, the one in Decatur is attached to a brewery, so it's a really good Friday afternoon. Uh, or Friday afternoon, like Friday after work, uh, spot to go and it's, and I've got a toddler and it's all the, all people like my age that bring their toddlers. So it's just a bunch kids, a bunch of dads that look like me drinking beers and eating pizza.

Ats such a good time.

Daniel Weiner: Nice. My final question for you, who is somebody who [00:50:00] inspires you either personally, professionally, or both?

Matt Kobach: Um, oh man. Let's see. I, so I'll say, I mentioned his name earlier. I'll, earlier, I'll say Rory Sutherland. Um, I just like the way that he takes something that is like, Right in front of our face and reframes it in a way that makes it something completely different. Uh, he's got a book, I think it's called Alchemy.

If you're a marketer, I absolutely recommend reading it because it's like literally what I'm going through right now at Slice. It's this idea of like how you describe something, how you think about something literally changes it from lead to gold, and that's why, like I've told my team, I only care about working on things that can 10 x the business.

This, and one of the things in my opinion that 10 x is slice is how we explain ourselves, especially to shops and less so to consumers, because once they understand what we do, in a sentence or less, I think this platform sells itself. But right now we are not explaining it that way. So I really love this idea that like words matter how you think about something, matters, how you describe something and [00:51:00] how you make it stick in someone's head.

Daniel Weiner: HubSpot for pizza, uh, was me. I

Matt Kobach: I.

Daniel Weiner: you can use that in your actual marketing,

Matt Kobach: No, I, I can't, 'cause shops don't know what HubSpot is. Again, talk to this like 60 year old blue collar shop owner and he has no idea. Now that's more of a New York thing. In other cities, uh, some of the shops, especially the newer wines, are a little more tech savvy. So, uh, I'll have that in my back pocket, at least if they're young.

Daniel Weiner: That's fair. No, this was awesome. Thank you so much for joining. What do you want everybody to do? You want pizza shops who are not currently on Slice to reach out and you want folks me to download Slice and Order through

Slice? 

Matt Kobach: I will. I, if you are on, if you're listening to this and you're on Twitter, find me on Twitter. I'm m kobach. Download the app. I will send you a code for free pizza, I promise. Just dm me, uh, and if you are a store, I'll tell you what. I'll pay you a thousand dollars to, to get onto Slice. Again, just dm me if you're any pizza shop in the United States, a thousand bucks

Daniel Weiner: No, no clue if we have the authority to do that here. But you heard it here first, folks,

Matt Kobach: I have the authority to do it. Uh, [00:52:00] whatever. Yeah.

Daniel Weiner: Alright, sweet. Well I appreciate you joining. This was awesome. Uh, thank you so much. And everybody go download Slice.

Matt Kobach: Yeah, please.

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