YouShouldTalkTo - YouShouldTalkTo - Nicole Wojno Smith

[00:00:00] Nicole Wojno Smith: What really, like, blows me away in a lot of situations, and can tilt the scale for me and I, my team as well, and their evaluating is like, someone shows up on that call, and they've done their research.

[00:00:11] Like, they know who we are, they know what we, we've done, they can already have a good understanding of some of our business objectives, instead of like just the very generic like Q&A discovery script-type of thing, as well. 

[00:01:01] Daniel Weiner: Hello, and welcome to episode two of the YouShouldTalkTo podcast. I am Daniel Weiner, and this podcast is still currently brought to you by YouShouldTalkTo until a sponsor ponies up, which, hopefully, will happen right after this call. YouShouldTalkTo pairs brands and marketers for free with vetted agencies and/or freelancers for marketing and tech needs.

[00:01:23] Why? Because finding a great agency is a pain in the ass. Today, I'm super excited to be joined by a friend, as well as a member of my board of advisors, Nicole Smith, who's VP of Marketing at Tackle. Thank you so much for joining us, Nicole, why don't you give us a little Cliffs Notes about, uh, you and Tackle as well?

[00:01:41] Nicole Wojno Smith: Sure. Thank you so much for having me, um, it's always so fun to talk to you, and just excited to be on your podcast. 

[00:01:47] Daniel Weiner: Thank you. 

[00:01:48] Nicole Wojno Smith: So, I guess the kind of the short version of my career and how I ended up at Tackle is I've been a bit of a hybrid marketer. I grew up on the agency side of things and was in PR before I made the switch over to running marketing for our agency I was at, which is really focused on PR for B2B healthcare IT companies.

[00:02:06] And while I was at that agency, I started running their marketing automation division to help our customers stand up their marketing automation platform and build demand gen programs to really connect, uh, marketing and sales together. And that was really my first startup experience that I had. And we were eventually acquired by a PE firm and merge with five other different agencies.

[00:02:28] And after a year, I decided to take the next step there, and I went to an early-stage startup in Atlanta that was focused on customer success space. And I had the opportunity there to build their marketing team from the ground up and all the programs associated with that. And I stayed there for about four years, and before I made move over to Tackle.

[00:02:48] And so, now I'm lucky enough, I think, to be getting to do this for the third time of building a marketing team from scratch. I've been at Tackle for two and a half years and started as the first marketer, again, and we have a team now of more than 20 people, and I've seen Tackle get to go from a seed stage company to now we've received our Series C round. 

[00:03:08] Tackle exists to help companies accelerate and operationalize a cloud go-to-market strategy. So, we work with the four major cloud marketplaces, AWS, Microsoft, Google, and Red Hat, and we currently work with more than 450 software companies today. Has building out a team the third time been any easier than the first two?

[00:03:29] I think so, I think I've learned a lot along the way of, you know, what to look for when you're building a high-performing team at a startup, and the kinds of people you want on your team, especially when you're building like, early stage and the people you want that are gonna grow with you. And it's never perfect,

[00:03:44] I've made some mistakes along the way, um, for sure, and I think you learned from those, but I do think it's been easier this time around for me. 

[00:03:52] Daniel Weiner: I sometimes forget that you, uh, have the agency experience as well, since you've been brand-side since I've known you, do you think that, that, uh, it obviously gives you some good insight for this conversation, but do you think it kind of prepared you more for A. your role, but also B. when you're vetting and looking for agencies since you've been on that side?

[00:04:10] Nicole Wojno Smith: For sure, and some people will probably think, like, I, I'm re, I think I'm critical of agencies probably because I was on the agency side, and I think the agency I was at was, had a pretty high bar, so I can be overly picky about agencies and how I expect the relationship to work, but I do think it also really prepared me for my role and what I'm doing, and

[00:04:32] understanding the importance of like, brand, and all aspects of marketing and investing in that from a very early stage and being able to tell, like, the company's story, and I'm a huge believer in brand driving demand as well. 

[00:04:45] Daniel Weiner: No, that makes total sense, and you've got all of this experience, and I feel remiss to not mention that it just took both of us 14 minutes to get our, uh, equipment working for this call.

[00:04:55] So, uh, while you can build a marketing organization and I can start a company, uh, figuring out the equipment, neither of our fortes, apparently.

[00:05:02] Nicole Wojno Smith: Yeah, definitely. You know, have some challenges on the technical side. 

[00:05:05] Daniel Weiner: I was, I was gonna say. Now that you've been in the leadership roles brand-side for a few years when you are looking for agencies, vendors, freelancers, any sort of third party, what is it typically that you are looking for?

[00:05:18] Is it specialized experience? Is it more about the people you're working with? Fill us in on that. 

[00:05:23] Nicole Wojno Smith: Sure. I think it, probably, it can vary a bit, but I would say I'm more probably looking for like specialized experience when I'm first going out and looking at, you know, a different agency for those situations, you know, sort of like you, um, we're also starting a podcast, so I was very specific of like, we want to look for a podcast agency, like someone that only specializes in this area. We also redoing our website right now.

[00:05:48] So, we are working with a company that only does websites, and I think it's hard for agencies to be everything to everyone, and have so many different services, and that's kind of where I think I've seen a breakdown of quality in some of those areas. So, I do think I tend to look at company, or agencies that really are specialized in those one areas when I'm probably looking and hiring those firms for myself.

[00:06:13] Daniel Weiner: I'll, I'll pretend my feelings aren't hurt that you didn't come to me for the website and podcast needs, but where do you look when you are in need of a third party? I know like, dark social now is a, a hot term in, uh, in the world. Are you going to communities? Are you asking, you know, a few trusted advisors and stuff like that?

[00:06:29] Where are you finding recommendations for vendors? 

[00:06:32] Nicole Wojno Smith: Yes. So, I should be going to you a lot more, man, because that's, YouShouldTalkTo that is what you are doing, and.

[00:06:41] Daniel Weiner: Absolutely, that's what I hear at least.

[00:06:44] Nicole Wojno Smith: I usually start with my team because my team has such diverse experiences, and they've all come from different companies and backgrounds that have used a lot of these tools or agencies before,

[00:06:54] Nicole Wojno Smith: so, I'm gonna ask them like, "Hey, who have you used on this side before? What experiences do you like them? Should we use them again?" And then, if they've had a few recommendations, like let's, that's kind of our short list of where we start, and then I'm gonna go into communities I'm in, like, pavilion or CMO Coffee Club,

[00:07:11] and I usually start like just doing a search there of seeing, first, like, I'll, I might search website agency, or look at the list I have and search and see what's been said about these companies and then I'll probably, like, if there's not enough data, I'll ask a question and maybe even say like, "Hey, if you, anyone worked with these companies, like, would love any insights or perspective."

[00:07:32] I'll set up calls with people to get their points of view, and again, this might be even before I've like, set up a call with these agencies, but I wanna know if they're worth a hard time to, to work with, and then like, I trust my relationships, and my people's relationships on my team, and I think that's why it's like more important than ever that people build strong brands and even stronger advocate that will go talk about you and you have a good experience with them, but that's why, you know, it's so valuable because people do talk, like you said, in these dark social communities, and if something could be, you could lose a deal before you even get a chance to get to the plate.

[00:08:07] Daniel Weiner: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. How often are you getting hit up by vendors with your title? I presume it's every 12 seconds, but how often are agencies or just third-party vendors in general, uh, sending you email or LinkedIn, and stuff like that? 

[00:08:22] Nicole Wojno Smith: I probably get maybe five, or I would say, probably five emails or LinkedIn messages a day about different services or from different agencies on, yeah, with pitches.

[00:08:34] And is there any way that any cold message like that can stand out to you, or is it, uh, not for anybody listening is thinking of, uh, sliding in your DM, so to speak? Is there any way that a random message like that can stand out as a vendor or an agency?

[00:08:49] There is, I mean, and I have responded to some of the cold emails and outreach. You know, usually, if they send me a box of wine, that works.

[00:08:57] Daniel Weiner: This is your chance. Yeah. Uh, concert tickets, cash, uh, you know, all the puppies, whatever you can send Nicole, happy to take a call. Ye, ye, yeah, more expensive the better. 

[00:09:09] Nicole Wojno Smith: Yeah, no, I think it's, it's really like people who have done their research on us, and maybe, and understand like my problems and challenges and what I'm facing, and, or like what I might be facing.

[00:09:20] And it's not like the generic cold pitch email. I've definitely have had situations where, um, and it, sometimes it is like, I'm not gonna respond after the first one, but you, I will read stuff, and like, you can understand that consistency, and there's some personal, there's a lot of personalization to it, and they've, they keep sending me like certain different articles that I might wanna read or they'll talk about like, "Hey, we just helped this company do x, y, and z,

[00:09:46] and I think you're, you're at the same stage. This is what I see, like, based on some of your marketing efforts, that you would probably be in a situation to also solve like, could we just have a, you know, 15-minute call to even see if we could, this could be a fit." And if someone does that, like, it really takes the time to understand and compare why I might need them.

[00:10:06] I, those things stand out to be more than others, and I'll also sometimes respond and be like, "We're really not in a situation to be talking, like, at this point, but hit me up again in six months."

[00:10:15] Daniel Weiner: With a bottle, with a, with a package of wine.

[00:10:18] Nicole Wojno Smith: Exactly. 

[00:10:18] Daniel Weiner: Or, or that vacation? No, you bring up a good point, like my kind of unpopular opinion sometimes is that I don't think the work matters.

[00:10:25] And what I mean by that is if, like you said, if you don't have a good process or the people you're dealing with aren't, you know, putting on a good show, as I would say, you don't even get to do the work, you know, if you have super talented people it doesn't matter if they don't get to do anything for you.

[00:10:38] When you're looking at vendors and evaluating, and stuff like that is, you know, you just brought up kind of like category experience, we did this for somebody in your space, or someone similar, are you evaluating based on those things, or is it more like you're looking for people you like and trust, and then you trust them to do reasonably good work on the back end?

[00:10:59] Nicole Wojno Smith: I do. Usually, like, people that I think have been in similar, have dealt with similar situations of, like, what we're doing before, so I do think that is something I do all, I mean, the personal relationship is very important, but I might say like right off the bat if I'm just thinking about how people approach me.

[00:11:18] So, I would say like, if I'm approaching a vendor, one of the things I always think about is like you say that 85 per, everyone knows like 85% of the buyer's research is done before they get on a call with someone, and like, we just kind of talked about that with dark social, and I don't truly believe that like, the vendor agency feels the same way

[00:11:37] a lot of times, like, I don't think they've done their research or homework before the first call. It's usually very little in my situations that I see, and I would love to see that switch. So, what really, like, blows me away in a lot of situations, and can tilt the scale for me and I, my team as well, and their evaluating is like, someone shows up on that call, and they've done their research.

[00:11:58] Like, they know who we are, they know what we, we've done, they can already have a good understanding of some of our business objectives, and they've almost, like, put together already their thoughts and great questions for us, instead of like just the very generic like Q&A discovery script-type of thing as well.

[00:12:17] Daniel Weiner: Yeah. If I talk about this a lot with my agencies and also when I was at an agency, I can vividly remember sitting in rooms, uh, deciding, like, not necessarily whether or not to be prepared, but how prepared and to be prepared with what because to play devil's advocate we often would say like, you know, we could get on a call and if we weren't like briefed super well prior, uh, which I think is super important, like, yeah, you know, if we didn't have all the context like we didn't wanna show up with something that wasn't applicable that kind of rolled us out without it.

[00:12:45] So, I presume you're writing world-class briefs and emails and stuff to these people before, uh, putting them in the hot seat for these conversations. Absolutely. Can you think of, in your time, other than working at a great agency, uh, any like really, really wonderful positive agency experiences you that you have had, and if so, why?

[00:13:07] What made them so wonderful? Was it the work? Was it the people? Just the experience in general? 

[00:13:12] Nicole Wojno Smith: Yeah, there's definitely one that, like, always stands out in my mind, and it was early on in Tackle days, we were updating our website, like doing a complete rebrand, new messaging, um, and just overhaul of everything.

[00:13:26] And the first off, like, starting from the beginning, again, like they, we had written a brief, again, of amazing, incredible, the best brief ever in the world of what we wanted, like what our challenges were, what we were hoping, what our scope and budget were, and when we showed up for that first call, they had clearly read it.

[00:13:46] They were ready to talk business, like, and they had very, like, very good questions prepared based on what they had seen in our brief, and like a few other vendors we talked to didn't even read the brief beforehand and showed up and were just like, "So what are you looking for us to do? And let me just tell you about our agency for 30 minutes."

[00:14:04] Nicole Wojno Smith: And so, it just, it really was like, "Okay. Well, that's, kind of seemed like a waste of our time." And then I would say they also wanted like, to really set us up for success, so at the time, we were in a unique position, we were creating a category, and so instead of just saying like, "Hey, we're gonna dive into the copy."

[00:14:21] They really pushed us to start with a messaging strategy exercise that they led, and we were a really lean team at that point, and they wanted to make sure like our positioning was correct, and at first, I was like, "Ugh, we don't need to do this." But it helped us tremendously. And I think the website project would've really gone off track if they hadn't recommended that we start that way.

[00:14:41] And I think that was a very good call on their part, and it helped us all get aligned. And then, some other areas that I think really worked well was just overcommunication. I think I can't stress that enough in agency or, you know, vendor relationships and how you work with a client, you know, they created a slack channel for us, so we could quickly communicate, they would do email updates, you know, weekly calls.

[00:15:04] And when things got off track, it was flagged immediately, whether it was on our end or their, so they didn't wait for a call to tell us, which really helped reduce friction, and then, I would also say like, if they, if something wasn't correct, like if we were like, "Hey, this copy's off or this design isn't what we were looking to see."

[00:15:23] I, I've had experiences where someone's just like, okay, like, we'll go do something else, but they really sought, like, we're seeking to understand what was not right, and what we were hoping to see and asked a lot of great questions, so that the next time it was right, and it, you know, of course, there were hiccups and mistakes and things that weren't perfect,

[00:15:42] but, you know, when I remember the experience, I think about, like, how it turned out overall, and I think about the good, and I forget a lot of the hurdles of all of that, I think.

[00:15:53] Daniel Weiner: Yeah. I try to remind all the marketers that I talk to, like the agencies I work with are not perfect. No agency is perfect. Mistakes happen almost a hundred percent of the time, or there will always be, especially on something like a big website or rebrand, there's gonna be some, something that happens.

[00:16:07] That's a pain in the ass, and it's how they react to it that keeps you as a client versus the fact that you actually had a mistake, that kind of flows into the next question, which I think I know the answer to now, but how do you think you get the best out of your agencies? You know, I, I've talked to several people about this, and it seems split 50-50, truthfully, between folks in your role of like, do you want a more collaborative process, or do you want to be told, you know, what to do?

[00:16:33] Even, you know, the first episode of this podcast that I did was with Cristy Garcia from Impact and asked her the same question, and she was kind of both, she said, you know, there are just some times where like, I need to be told what to do, and other times is, is for collaboration and stuff like that.

[00:16:48] Daniel Weiner: I'm curious your opinion on that. It sounds like the really good experience you had was super collaborative, over, overly collaborative. 

[00:16:54] Nicole Wojno Smith: Mm-hmm. I definitely think the collaborative is one of the reasons, like, why I am outsourcing something and hiring someone for these situations, so I do want that to be collaborative, and it's usually like, I don't have the resources in-house to do that.

[00:17:07] And we need, like, that strategic partner in arms. So, I'm really looking someone, for someone to, like, be that resource for us to help build a strategy, so they do have to kind of play that strategic role and tactical to help us execute in those areas. And that stands out to me when someone can see that, like, be those, play those two roles and really work well with us in those areas, like bring us new ideas instead of us being the idea generator behind everything.

[00:17:36] Kind of see some of that white space that maybe we're not seeing 'cause they're immersed in other ideas, or they're seeing other clients do it that way, so bringing things to us, and in that way as well. 

[00:17:47] Daniel Weiner: Gotcha. On the, on the flip side, without bashing anybody, can you think of relatively or very negative agency experience and, and what made that as negative as it was?

[00:17:56] Nicole Wojno Smith: Yeah, I think, unfortunately, there's probably, like, more negative experiences than positive, which stink.

[00:18:03] Daniel Weiner: That'll be, that'll be my next podcast. Just shit, shit, shit-talking, and whoever sends us the most wine doesn't get talked about.

[00:18:10] Nicole Wojno Smith: You shit-talking. 

[00:18:13] Daniel Weiner: Ye, ye, yeah, that's my next company, too. 

[00:18:15] Nicole Wojno Smith: But I think this has to do with a lot on, like, our side as well, and, like, how we set expectations, so I don't think it's all on the agency side, I think it's something like you have to be very thoughtful about of how you approach agencies and your expectations. But I, I don't know if there's like one experience, but I think like, I think there's some common themes that I would call out of agencies of what happens to make it a bad experience.

[00:18:38] Like, I do have one that kind of is top of mind lately, but there's a bait and switch mentality, a bait and switch that happens a lot with agencies, um, of where someone more senior pitches, and then they just pass it off to all the junior team members, they never get on a call unless it's for, like, a report or you're, you know, quite fed up with something,

[00:18:56] then they're like, "Oh, I better check on and calm the nerves." Or there's lots of churn at agencies, and you constantly have new team members joining. And so, you have to, like, get them up to speed again, and it seems like, you know, two steps forward, one step back, and it's kind of frustrating. And then, a lot of them, it's just like they don't have an understanding of the space.

[00:19:14] And although you might hire someone that is a B2B, SaaS, you know, PR firm or something, they still have an exactly like our, the space we're in is very unique, and so, you know, I feel like I've spent a year at sometimes getting an agency up to speed and being able to really write or talk about what we're doing.

[00:19:32] And probably the other area is just like poor communication. You know, I talked about that as like a really great thing, and then there's other times where they won't let us know they're gonna miss a deadline, they're not responsive, or just, I would also say like, the quality side is poor, and instead of missing a deadline, they'll just send something over that is just to get it there on the deadline.

[00:19:54] But, you know, they haven't really, like, put time into editing it or reviewing it, and something, so. 

[00:19:59] Daniel Weiner: Missing deadlines is sacri, can't, can't have that. To that end, like, once something has crossed into a negative space, do you think those types of experiences can be salvaged, and kind of brought back, or you think kind of once it reaches that point, like, trust is broken, and it's really hard to get back to a good spot?

[00:20:17] Nicole Wojno Smith: I do think they can be like, salvaged, and if you have open conversations with them, I think it takes work on both people's part, in that sense, but I've seen it turned around a few times in very positive ways, and then I've, but I've also just seen sometimes where it just can't. 

[00:20:38] Daniel Weiner: Just keeps going down the mountain.

[00:20:39] Nicole Wojno Smith: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:41] There are so many things that you have to keep, you know, up to speed on as a marketer, especially leading an organization and stuff like that. We've got NFTs, we've got metaverse, we've got all that stuff, uh, what are you most bullish on and excited about? Just in the marketing space, you know, we've got events coming back in person, all sorts of stuff.

[00:20:59] Daniel Weiner: I know you've been traveling more for work, what are you, uh, most excited about from a marketing standpoint, or what do you think's next? 

[00:21:06] Nicole Wojno Smith: Ooh, that's a good question. I think, you know, events have been something like that I've been really excited about, like, getting back in person together with everyone and we've been doing road shows this year, so that's been really incredible and fun.

[00:21:18] And I, but I think probably, like, as I look forward to, like, what's next and how are we thinking about things for the future, it's almost, like, I think I'm finally in a position at, like, my company where we can start making a lot bigger bets on things, and community is a big part of that and launching communities and how we really start to bring customers together and give them some of those, like, opportunities to then, you know, help educate prospects and opportunities.

[00:21:46] And we're doing that through some of our road shows, and we're launching some programs like that, but to like really do it full scale, and then I think that can turn into like bigger customer conferences for us. And I know that's not necessarily like a huge marketing trend, but I think I've seen a lot of that pop-up, like, during the pandemic, of communities, um, you know, we're involved in a lot of those, and I'm excited to, like, start building that out through, um, Tackle and what we're doing.

[00:22:10] You started and led a whole community, that's how, that's how we met you. Uh, if I remember correctly, you, you turned me down the first time I tried to join, they weren't letting agencies. And, uh, at the time, 

[00:22:18] Nicole Wojno Smith: I don't remember that.

[00:22:19] it doesn't keep me up at night, I promise.

[00:22:21] Nicole Wojno Smith: And I think to you to run the community.

[00:22:24] Daniel Weiner: I know I, you, you, we've come full circle here. Uh, have you seen events, the ones that you're going to, at least, have they come back, do you think attendance is back to somewhat pre-COVID levels and regularity, or not so much?

[00:22:39] Nicole Wojno Smith: I've seen it at the big conferences we go to, that

[00:22:41] I think people are coming back and attending those at some of the, like, road shows and happy hours we're doing. I feel like people register for them, and then they don't always show up to the events. So, I feel like I'm seeing lower than average in-person attendance at some of these things, which, pre-pandemic, it seemed a lot higher.

[00:23:00] So, I don't know if it's just, you know, some conflicts or people still a little dicey about like, "Should I come to this, or do they have competing minorities?" Um, I haven't, like, nailed it exactly of what that is, yet. 

[00:23:11] On the opposite end of that, what keeps you up at night from a marketing and business standpoint?

[00:23:17] Nicole Wojno Smith: Gosh, a lot of stuff, but, um, we're a hypergrowth company, and so, definitely lots of growth goals this year. And, you know, with the macroeconomic environment, you know, worse stress than ever, deals are taking longer to close, you know, you're seeing lots of, lots of craziness in the tech space right now.

[00:23:34] So, I think for me, it's always thinking about pipeline, like, we need more, how do we look at this across marketing and sales and partners, and really think about everything we're doing and how to grow this effectively. We have a big focus right now on developing a lot more integrated campaigns. I, I like to say that we've been doing a lot of random acts of marketing and not putting all these programs together.

[00:23:57] And we're, that's, that's something that like, we're focused on doing this, this next second half of the year and this next, in 2023, as well. So, uh, I think it just comes down to, you know, prioritization, efficiency, and how we all look at this across the board together, so we can maximize our ROI and everything.

[00:24:16] Daniel Weiner: You're still actively hiring, though, for several roles at Tackle, though, right? 

[00:24:20] Nicole Wojno Smith: We are, yeah, I think we have four or five roles on the marketing team. And then, I mean, probably 30 plus across the organization right now. 

[00:24:27] Daniel Weiner: What is it? tackle.io/careers?

[00:24:30] Nicole Wojno Smith: I think you're right. You might know our website addresses better than myself and you.

[00:24:35] Daniel Weiner: I came, I came prepared to this podcast, Nicole, is what, uh, is what I did. 

[00:24:39] Nicole Wojno Smith: You've helped me source a role. So, thank you. 

[00:24:42] Daniel Weiner: We did. I'm blanking on what the role wa, product manager?

[00:24:44] Nicole Wojno Smith: Product marketing manager. Yep. 

[00:24:47] Daniel Weiner: Product marketing manager, hopefully, so far, so good. 

[00:24:49] Nicole Wojno Smith: Very awesome. 

[00:24:50] Daniel Weiner: Or, or, or we'll have to cut this portion out.

[00:24:52] That concludes the, uh, the marketing portion of our conversation. There, there's three questions I plan on asking everybody.

[00:24:58] Nicole Wojno Smith: Okay.

[00:24:58] Daniel Weiner: So, these are, these are more fun and a little rapid fire, but what was your first job?

[00:25:02] Nicole Wojno Smith: Right.

[00:25:03] So, first paying job was in high school, and I was a hostess at a restaurant in Dunwoody called Joey D's, lot of Atlanta

[00:25:10] Daniel Weiner: Oak Room, Joey D's Oak Room? 

[00:25:12] Nicole Wojno Smith: Yes. 

[00:25:14] Daniel Weiner: Wow. That is, I've been there once. It is wonderful, pitch black, smokey.

[00:25:19] Nicole Wojno Smith: Yeah.

[00:25:20] Daniel Weiner: Uh, yeah.

[00:25:21] Nicole Wojno Smith: Yeah, probably not the best place for, like, a 15-year-old to be a hostess. But, uh, it is what it is. 

[00:25:26] Daniel Weiner: I was gonna say, yeah. 

[00:25:27] Nicole Wojno Smith: Yeah. And then, out of college, my first job was I sold office supplies door-to-door to businesses, like a sort of pyramid scheme type company. That was, uh, I didn't last too long, but, you know, you need a job, and you need money when you graduated, picks were slipped. 

[00:25:44] What was door knocking like back then?

[00:25:47] Nicole Wojno Smith: Uh, it was very weird, like.

[00:25:49] Daniel Weiner: I imagine it's still weird. I just presume it was a little more normal then.

[00:25:54] Nicole Wojno Smith: I mean, maybe, but it was very, you know, trying to get to the decision maker at businesses, like sucking up to the office managers to let us in, sold a lot of paper. I mean, it was like real life, like, the office...

[00:26:05] Daniel Weiner: Yeah, I was gonna say, I, I firmly believe everybody, you should work in a restaurant, I worked as a food runner at Ippolito's in, uh,

[00:26:12] Nicole Wojno Smith: Oh yeah. 

[00:26:12] Daniel Weiner: at, uh, uh, in High School and stuff. Yes. And, uh, gave me a lot of good experience. I think my first paying job was, uh, I worked at a car wash, illegally, if I remember correctly.

[00:26:21] So, hopefully, uh, the statute of limitations as, uh, warm off on that, so no one, yeah, we'll have to cut this, whole episode's gonna be three minutes long, we're gonna have to cut half of this. Your death row meal, what's your final meal?

[00:26:34] Nicole Wojno Smith: Okay, this is a little bougie maybe, but, um, I would.

[00:26:37] Daniel Weiner: I've always known you to be a bougie eater, so.

[00:26:40] Nicole Wojno Smith: I know you have, I would probably do like the omakase menu from somewhere like, either Nobu, or Umi, or something.

[00:26:46] I mean, I just like, maybe it's 'cause I'm just not getting, like it's, shockingly, I don't, we don't have great sushi where I live in Florida, so when I come back to Atlanta, I need all my great sushi meals, and nigiri, and so, I just like, love a good meal like that. So, that would be definitely my death row meal.

[00:27:03] Daniel Weiner: Sushi would presumably be my, uh, my death row meal as well,

[00:27:07] Nicole Wojno Smith: Really?

[00:27:07] Daniel Weiner: and, uh, yeah, when you get back to Atlanta, uh, Umi, uh, should be on the, uh, on the docket, for sure. 

[00:27:13] Nicole Wojno Smith: Let's do it. 

[00:27:14] Daniel Weiner: And then the final question, who is somebody, doesn't have to be marketing, could be anybody who inspires you? 

[00:27:20] Yes. So, I actually, like, I've just gotten, um, very fortunate, like, my CEO and our board really believe in marketing, and, you know, as I'm trying to, again, like I want my board of advisors for myself as I continue to grow my career, and I have a great marketing advisor that I've just, um, gotten to start working with. Her name is Carol, she was the CMO at Atlassian, and she's done a lot of great things, and she advises a lot of hyper-growth companies, and she is just, she's amazing.

[00:27:48] Nicole Wojno Smith: And I'm just already learning a ton from her right now. 

[00:27:52] Daniel Weiner: That's awesome. Awesome. And you mentioned that, I think at the beginning, but you guys just launched a playbook or something like that?

[00:27:57] Nicole Wojno Smith: Um, we just launched us our state of cloud marketplace survey. And this is, we really benchmark, um, the industry on what's going on with cloud marketplaces.

[00:28:08] How spend is changing, what buyers and sellers are both doing. And then we put together our annual state of cloud marketplaces report, which we release in September of each year. 

[00:28:19] Daniel Weiner: Awesome. How can somebody get their hands on that? 

[00:28:22] Nicole Wojno Smith: They can go to Tackle's website, tackle.io, and find it there. We'd love people to take the survey.

[00:28:28] Daniel Weiner: Awesome. Perfect. Well, Nicole, thank you again. I really appreciate you spending time with us today. It was great to chat. Uh, I presume the best spot to find you, I wouldn't even dream of putting your, uh, your email on, uh, on the overlay here, or anything like that, I'll spare you the, uh, the pitches, but, uh, LinkedIn, or, uh, Tackle.io, I presume is the best way to get in touch with you. 

[00:28:49] Nicole Wojno Smith: Yep. LinkedIn is great. Um, like I said, I do respond to messages on LinkedIn as well, so that is fine, and you can always, you know, reach us through Tackle, as well. 

[00:28:57] Daniel Weiner: We'll find out how many, uh, additional pitches you get referencing anything from this, uh, shortly after the release, but, uh, no, thank you, as always, and, uh, I will talk to you soon. 

[00:29:07] Nicole Wojno Smith: Thank you.