Kim Morales, Senior Director of Brand Marketing at Miller's Ale House

Daniel: Hello and welcome to another episode of the you should talk to podcast. I am Daniel Weiner, your host. Uh, this podcast is brought to you by myself as well as you should talk to. You should talk to Paris brands and marketers for free with vetted agencies and or freelancers for virtually any marketing or tech need because finding great agencies is a pain in the ass.

Uh, very excited to be joined today by a colleague turned friend. Hopefully you agree. Kim Morales. Who is senior director of brand marketing at Miller's Alehouse. Give a round of applause for Kim. Thank you for joining. 

Kim: Thanks, Daniel. Thanks for having me. 

Daniel: I know a long time coming. Uh, we'll, we'll jump right in.

What is an unpopular opinion you have or a hot take of sorts in the marketing world in general? 

Kim: Um, I don't know if it's that hot, but we don't want, I 

Daniel: don't want it. 

Kim: Well, you know, it sometimes hurts my heart, but I think in the end, most consumers don't really care about our marketing. 

Daniel: I'd agree. 

Kim: They hate advertising.

They want to skip through the commercials. They, you know, will flip through a sponsored TikTok. It's, it's hard. It's hard out there in the world being a marketing girl. So, um, you know, we're trying to get brands to love us. People to love us 

Daniel: as a marketing gal myself. I, uh, I, I tend to agree. I actually pose the question.

I don't even want you to answer it because I don't want to, I don't want to put you on the spot, but I ask a lot of people, if you just shut off your marketing in general, a hundred percent, what do you, what do you think would happen? And I've had people tell me like, I don't know that business would change a crazy amount.

So for certain brands, not all. 

Kim: Yeah. Yeah. I think it depends, but 

Daniel: that's fair. 

Kim: It's. It's the world we live in, so it worked even harder to stand out. 

Daniel: Yeah, you've had quite the culinary journey, I would say. You've had agency experience, lots of food and hospitality. You are now at Miller's Ale House. Tell us a little about that journey, and my biggest question is, what have you seen along the way in terms of like how consumer behavior has shifted?

Kim: So, yes, you, I did start on the agency side in media, which is a really great experience for anyone kind of wanting to get into marketing and trying to find your place. It's, um, great knowledge to have, especially now that media is so fragmented. So, having that strong knowledge really does help you as a marketer.

Um, and I think, you know, from once I started and then moving into, you know, The brand marketing side for Crabb's Italian Grill and eventually Outback Steakhouse and now Miller's. Um, it's just constantly a shift in consumer attention where, where can we find them at the most, um, most effectively talk to those people and the right people, um, and in the right way.

When I was first starting out, I was working on, um, public supermarkets. And they were planning 60 second TV spots and, um, telling all these wonderful brand stories and just, um, It's how we've come so far to now you have to grab someone's attention in about three seconds, um, at a TikTok video when they're going to see about, you know, 50 more before TikTok tells them they need to go to bed.

So it's a, it's an interesting world and you, a lot more fragmented and you're really kind of trying to grasp for attention, um, wherever you can, but really with the, with the right guests in mind. 

Daniel: My parents moved from Atlanta to New York many years ago. And when I asked my mom to this day, what she misses outside of me, uh, most about Atlanta, she says Publix.

So, uh, shout out Publix. Uh, I'm curious, what should people know outside of the Zingers, which I got to try for the first time in ages a few weeks ago, uh, what should everybody know about Miller's ale house? What do you guys got going on? 

Kim: Miller's is, you know, it's a great time. I grew up knowing Miller's as the Tampa ale house where that's how Miller's started.

Um, first restaurant in Jupiter, Florida. So, um, you know, grew up knowing as a place we go to and shoot darts and play some pool and, um, I think, you know, now as the restaurant has evolved into Millerville house named after our founders, Jack and Claire Miller, that, um, you know, it's still a great place to come and hang out.

We have two big bars and lots 35, 45 years. Drafts on tap and 60 TVs so you can watch any sports that's on at any time. So if you were coming to hang out with your friends and, you know, just kind of relax and have a good time and come as you are, then Yeah, that's what Miller's has gone on at the moment.

Daniel: Plus the zingers. 

Kim: Plus the zingers. 

Daniel: Plus the zingers. Uh, I'm curious. I talked to a lot of folks in your position, marketing leaders at brands in general. Uh, 2024, at least in my world. And with a lot of people I chat with hasn't, uh, kicked off as, as Rosie, as I think a lot of people were hoping still feels like a little bit of a state of disarray.

I'm curious, what is your best piece of advice for other marketing leaders out there trying to. navigate 2024. Yeah, it's 

Kim: but it's something that w through before. Um, you k in the industry as long a I think, you know, within the voice of your consumm important thing. Um, it w Business decisions and sales driving decisions and how much money can we save to help us make the most amount of money?

But if you're not keeping your guest or your consumer at the heart of that and being that voice for them at the table when you're talking about business strategy, then You know, that's truly the the best way for You to kind of navigate through tumultuous times and you know Cause they're not gonna go away.

Everything is cyclical and what's good. We'll come back. What's bad. We'll come back. Just kind of riding that wave with your, with your customer is going to be the, I think my best piece of advice for everybody. 

Daniel: I think that ties into your hot take, which I agree with. And I think the reason is because a lot of times, myself included, like we are marketers, we come up with things that are for us instead of the consumer.

Oftentimes when I'm talking to brands, we're having conversations around like, are you the target? Like, is this for you or is this for them? So I think your point of, uh, you know, Keep the customer at the front of literally every decision that is made is excellent feedback. My favorite question of the entire interview that I'll ask everybody is most folks in your position that I chat with are getting hit up like 700 million times per week by agencies, by vendors.

I imagine this is the case for you as well. 

Kim: It is, yes. 

Daniel: For a PSA of sorts, if you had to speak directly into the camera to all the agencies and vendors out there who would love, presumably, to do business with you and assume you're just sitting at your desk with a pile of cash, like, ready to dole out hundreds, what would you say to those folks?

Kim: I'd say don't be upset if I don't respond to you. You know, are 

Daniel: people getting upset with you? 

Kim: No. Well, now you have, like, I realized now there's a lot of automated, like Salesforce emails that come out. And, um, it's just frustrating if I actually do. Respond to someone and say, Hey, sorry, it's not right for me right now.

And I still a day later get the automated sales force response. Hey, we still want to talk. I'm like, I just told you yesterday I didn't. Um, but I think in the end, if the timing is right for me and for you, and it intrigues me enough, I'll respond. I don't think it's. It's worth either of our time, if I'm taking a meeting to learn more or you're preparing a deck or spending 30 minutes to show me something, if I have no intention of buying that product.

So, um, or just not going to be right for me, you know, just it, it's, um, it's kind of the way sales work. So, um, I get it, you know, there is, you know, a right buyer for every product or for every agency. But, you know, sometimes Most of the time it's not going to be me, and I probably don't have enough budget for a lot of things right now anyway, so we're just talking about, you know, tough times and, and, um, you know, in the economy right now.

So, um, yeah, I think just don't be upset, just keep working and eventually, you know, if it's the right time, if I do tell you no, then tell me no. Respect that and move on. 

Daniel: Is there any like expensive gifts you need or any restaurants you like that people can send you? I always try to get people, you know, stuff they want on these and people do listen to these.

You will presumably get an email at some point that says, I heard you on the podcast. So. 

Kim: Well, you know what's funny? It's that there are, you know, there's a couple tactics. Like, yeah, there's some a couple and they'll be like, we'll give you this free Yeti if you, you take a meeting with me or Amazon gift card, if you take a meeting with me.

And I'm just like, you know, I don't want to feel guilted into if I'd see, okay, you're, you're You represent this. I don't have a need for that. I'm not going to just, I'm sure there's people out there that get their free Yeti and they should 

Daniel: just send the Yeti. That's the takeaway. If you want to send, if you want to send the Yeti, just send the Yeti and say, we'd love to chat and eat the, eat the cost of the Yeti.

If you don't want to talk to them. 

Kim: There you go. I mean, yeah, that's. I mean, that's, that's what we're doing every day in marketing, throwing stuff out there and see what catches. So 

Daniel: I a hundred percent agree. Um, we ran a fun RFP process together with us recently, which I'll ask you a couple of questions about, but the biggest thing I've seen, which makes me, I think, uh, nicely positioned for brands like you all is I've seen a huge shift, especially since COVID a little prior of bigger brands or just name brands in general, moving away.

from bigger holding company agencies in favor of smaller, independent, more nimble is something I hear a hundred times a day. Agencies that are typically specialized in like one to two things. What do you think of that trend? You've come from big, huge, you know, name brands and stuff like that with Yeah, 

Kim: I've done the holding company agency and I've done the, you know, small couple of guys.

You know, working from home. But, um, I think even the biggest brands don't want to be lost in a large agency. Um, so I think the and I think the same is going for the talent at the agency. So the smaller independents are attracting the great talent or they're breaking out and doing their own thing. So they're not lost as well.

So I think it's that intersection of personal attention that a brand wants and the talent wants some, um, independents that are of, you know, whether it's creative or strategy or, um, research, I think, whatever, you know, the, the focus is. Um, so I think it's finding that, that need between the two of, um, you know, trying to, you know, Be well serviced on the brand side and getting what you need.

I think you have nimbleness, of course, you know, being willing to move with the ebbs and flows of a business. Um, and then having a great team that you want to work with that also has the talent. So I think it's where in the, you know, the olden days, or maybe even 15, 20 years ago, the holding companies attracted the big talent, but now that You know, agency offices don't even exist anymore.

They've all gone remote. So that culture that drove people to New York and drove people to big agency markets isn't there anymore. Everyone's sitting behind their computer at home from wherever they want in the world. So, um, you know, I think that's also given people, you You know, the people that wanted to break out now, they can, cause they don't need an office space.

Daniel: I think it's COVID. I think it was the great equalizer of agencies because talent was so dispersed to some of my most successful agencies are in, you know, podunk towns, uh, you know, tiny markets that no one's ever heard of and stuff like that. Do you care if your agency, do you have an opinion of agencies?

Uh, I'll, I'll, I'll give you the answer to the test of why I'm asking. Uh, one of my unpopular opinions is I don't know that it, you know, It always matters, but I seek out these days agencies who do have some sort of office presence because I think it is not for every industry and every business. But if you're like trying to foster creativity, I've been in some of those rooms, like it is hard to replace over zoom.

Uh, that sort of creative process often. So I think it's important for agencies, not necessarily five days a week, but to have presence or regularly get together. Do you have an opinion of that? 

Kim: Yeah, I do think that there is something special. Um, You know, I, about having a, you know, a group of creative people be together, um, and talk together, whether they're at a business or, um, or at an agency.

I did spend a short amount of time post COVID, uh, a decent sized agency. And, um, there, um, we got rid, you know, it was post COVID. So we weren't going into the office, but then eventually they got rid of one of the offices. So it just, it, it did feel like it was missing some of that. Collaboration and inspiration that comes from from being together.

And then I think, you know, agencies have always been a high turnover type of, um, environment just because, uh, you know, Agencies are winning and losing business all the time. So you're going, you know, you're going to where the business is. Um, but I think from being remote agencies are struggling even more to retain talent because you can sit in the same seat and go make a little bit more money at the next agency on LinkedIn.

And, um, that's just happening a lot more. So I, I, I see their struggle. Um, they probably, they have to find some really unique ways to make people feel a part of their culture, even when that culture is, you know, sitting behind a computer screen, 

Daniel: Yeah. Let's talk about the RFP for a minute. Um, we introduced you to five agencies.

You shortlisted to three to go through the actual pitch process. Any takeaways from the RFP process? How wonderful it was in general and streamlined and all that sort of stuff. No, I'm kidding. What, uh, what was your biggest takeaway from the process? You've been involved in many, many RFP. 

Kim: No, I know. I truly loved the process with working with you, Daniel.

Um, no, Daniel did not make me. I was going to say, 

Daniel: this feels for your, this is like a hostage video. I'm like, read the card, Kim. 

Kim: I know in my like boring corporate office, it probably seems like I am being like in a hostage holding room or something. Um, but I think that, um, no, it was really great. Cause I've done the.

Um, agency holding company, like go through like the huge media agency review where it's months and, um, 

Daniel: wild to me, 

Kim: it's, it's crazy. So to do this just, um, in the right way, someone who knows people that knows me, you know, we, we, we built a relationship and then, you know, these agencies, cause you've worked with them and you feel like, you know, based on their, um, You know what my needs and then what they would like you'll be best working on.

Um, it was, you know, so easy and fast and a good fast, like a good like I felt like we were moving quickly and and getting to decisions and the agencies. It all felt very collaborative. So I, you know, I think it's, um, I think you've found a really great, like, niche of connecting brands to these agencies and freelancers too.

We've even connected on, you know, um, some pieces for copywriting as well. So, um, I, I love the process and, you know, keep recommending you to people I know in the industry. So I think it's, um, a great way to get introduced to new agencies versus You know, just Google searching who can do this for me, because that doesn't give you any sense into the people because that's just, you know, you know, just, just their brand website, or maybe some articles about them.

So I loved every part of it. Um, and honestly, probably the, the true, the part that tells me that it was, you know, the right thing to do. Way for us to go about it is that it was hard to make a decision. It was a very, a 

Daniel: very, uh, tough ending to the, uh, down to the wire. 

Kim: It's hard. Yeah, it was hard. I mean, it was great.

There were great options and, you know, it, it, you know, we had, we took a lot of time to think about and, you know, as a team, like who, who do we really want to work with and, uh, Um, you know, it was, um, I think that's a great testament because I've been in, you know, those situations in the past where it was obvious getting who you should go with.

But yeah, I think there was a lot of great options for us and it, um, you know, you know, excited that, you know, we're going to get, you know, be able to have an opportunity to work with them. 

Daniel: Awesome. No, glad to hear. Um, I'm curious from your past or over the course of your career, can you think of a really great agency experience that you've had and what made it so great?

Kim: Yeah, I mean, I think I've been fortunate to work with really great people from a lot of different agencies, big and small, and a lot of them we still keep in touch. Um, Whether it's LinkedIn or text or, um, they're sending you yetis 

Daniel: and, and, uh, Amazon gift cards. 

Kim: I send you, 

Daniel: I send you alcohol. I don't know. I mean, the 

Kim: best kind of gift, but probably, probably not the right way to meet.

That's fair. 

Daniel: I know. That's better. 

Kim: But I think that in the end, just I mean, open and honest communications. I mean, even with your best agencies that you have a great relationship with, you're going to have bumps in the road or not going to, you know, maybe they don't hit the mark on on something that you've asked from them.

Um, but a lot of times I think it's all about open communication. And I think, you know, Um, great account directors can really make or break a business. So that's, um, they have the hardest job in an agency. I think they're trying to navigate between, you know, all the different departments and keep them on track and keep them happy and explain to them what the client wants.

And, um, a lot of times they don't want to hear it because it's too fast. And, and, but I think it's up to that account director. To have that relationship, the client to be open and have the best interest of the agency. But you know, I think the marketer has to be the most open if, uh, if the, if the client is not letting them know what's going on or not giving them the whole truth or it's.

It's, it's, you're not being open about why they didn't like something or why they even or why they did, um, or giving them credit for great work that they've done. Then, you know, I, I think a lot of relationships probably hinge on, um, you know, the, the marketer side to, you know, that, that they're not being totally, totally forthcoming.

So I would agree. I think I've learned that there, I mean, it, it kind of, it's a hard lesson to learn. It's hard to be honest sometimes when, when feedback is, when the feedback is negative. But I think I've, you know, throughout my career, I've learned that, um, You know, being, letting someone know very soon what the feedback is to the work and, and, and being as productive and constructive with that criticism or feedback is, is really the right way to do it.

But sitting on it isn't going to help you if you're just kind of like dreading having a conversation. It's, you know, in the end, you shouldn't dread it once you actually have the conversation. Like, I think you say, you say this, Daniel, just pick up the phone. Like, that's. It's really, you know, the best way to say that a lot, just, just talk to somebody, you know, a lot of people, 

Daniel: that's like people, that's like a lot of people's worst fears, you know, of like just having a, it's always worse over email, but the reason I'm so big, so much of a proponent of picking up the phone, it's also usually like, it takes like 30 seconds.

to just talk often versus like a 15 email threat, you know, when you just like pick up the phone, which is why, I don't know, some people just can't. But to your point, yeah, I think the best clients and the best account people are tough, but fair. I talk about my, when I was at an agency, my friend Jenny was my client, uh, for a while.

And we, Remain friends to this day, which is, uh, not the easiest thing to do. And you've worked with people, you know, in that sort of role, potentially. She was one of the toughest clients I ever had, but she was fair. Like nothing she ever asked for was like insane. Or I felt like, Oh my God, I can't believe she's asking for this or stuff like that.

She was tough. Like she had high expectations, but it was fair and she was open and stuff like that. And I think that's important for both sides. 

Kim: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. 

Daniel: I'm curious if you can be more specific only because I want to see how it compares everybody else. Can you think of like a specific. Scenario of an agency and what made that scenario great generally, because I always want to hear if it was more like, I very rarely hear, which I'll ask on the next question.

Uh, I very rarely hear what makes an agency great as the work, whenever I ask people about their positive agency experiences and like what made it great. 99 percent of the time it has nothing to do with the work. It is to your point, like so and so was so wonderful to work with and made my life, you know, uh, stress free, you know, the communication, the experience, it's very rarely the actual thing, you know, like, Oh, the website they built was the best website we've ever seen.

I'm curious if you can think of like a specific scenario and what was it that made it such a positive experience? 

Kim: Um, I mean, I think the work was certainly good. Um, and I think that. 

Daniel: Yeah, the work can't soccer. You'll get fired. 

Kim: Right. Right. And I think, you know, we're, you know, probably some of the best experiences.

I was working on a casual rest, you know, casual dining restaurant brand. That was definitely, you know, handcuffing the creative with all the levels of approvals and, you know, Number of times a limited time offer had to be mentioned in a 15 second spot. So, um, I think the agency was creative as they could be within a lot, a lot of strict parameters.

But, you know, we dealt with a lot of, um, Interesting leadership. Um, you know, people on the team that, you know, would cause a lot of strife for us or headache or unreasonable deadlines or just sometimes straight up rudeness. So I think us having each other and realizing that, you know, we were in this together.

Um, I think that's what really kind of made it great that peer to peer we were going to do this together. And that, um, Regardless of, you know, higher ups trying to you know, throw some, some hurdles our way that just sometimes weren't very fair. You know, we knew from both sides that, um, that we were going to get through it together.

And, uh, once those people were gone, it made our jobs a lot easier because we kind of been through this war together. Um, you know, it was, um, I think, uh, a great experience to have together. And, um, you know, I'd work with any of them any day again. I 

Daniel: think that's another one of my hot takes that I don't think should be a hot take.

I often say, or I break agencies hearts sometimes where new agencies will. Tell me about all this stuff that they're the quote unquote best at, uh, or like proprietary process or something. And I generally in a non, like, I don't mean it as a gotcha. I'm like, what makes it different from this agent? Or like, I'll say like, I have an agency who does that, you know, to, I think people are the only thing that separates agencies is I used to think it was process.

I don't. 

Kim: They kind of all have the same process now because they've all moved around. I mean, the RFP process we just went through, everyone presented a process that was very similar. Yeah, I think it is true. 

Daniel: I think when I was early in my career, I was like, Oh, we have a great process. And then once I like started doing what I do now, I was like, Oh, everybody kind of has a reason it's again, everybody has the same process.

It could still be terrible because it's executed poorly, but yeah, like in general, yeah, most agencies I work with have very similar process. It's the people executing the process that, you know, generally make it a different than anybody else. 

Kim: A hundred percent. 

Daniel: Now we'll talk about the negative. Kim, can you, uh, can you think of a negative agency experience you've had over the course of your career and what made it so negative?

Kim: Um, I think when an agency sells themselves for another piece of your business, They're not that great at, but they're like, Oh, just add on a couple extra X amount of dollars and we could do this for you too. Um, if it's not in their wheelhouse or in their expertise, um, then, you know, the work suffers and then, you know, They end up losing everything at the end.

So I think think long and hard if there's like just another you know, you've always wanted this piece of the business and You finally get an opportunity. I think as long as as long as you feel like you can really service it and you have a you have a strong expertise in it, then it's probably not going to be a 

Daniel: I remind my agencies of this all the time.

Uh, I actually the other day got a text from a brand side marketer. Just finished selecting an agency of mine a few months ago for an RFP and wrote like, Hey, I just want to let you know, things are going great. Uh, and they also wrote, which made me happier than the fact that it was going great. Like, uh, we're getting rid of X agency for this service and they offered it to my agency and they said, no, we don't, we don't want it.

We don't do a good. The We don't want to even, which again, I said, if they had said they could have done it, I would have told you they cannot, cause I don't think they can either. But hearing that now, I think it's such a risk for agencies to not even like, even if it goes. Okay, you're mediocre just to get a bad rep, right?

Like if they do one thing good be known for that to you in that scenario, you know Have you say nice things about them for that all that sort of stuff? Uh, I also put it sometimes I can remember being in this position at my old agency where we would do Something we were good at for a brand and they would go great.

Can you do this as well? And we'd be like, eh, not really. And they'd ask like several times and eventually we would give in, you know, and we would not do that thing super well. So I think it's also, uh, not that it's not a nice thing. It's great if a brand trusts you enough to offer you more of the business.

I think it's also on the brand to realize like, if it doesn't seem like that they can do the work, like 

Kim: don't 

Daniel: force it just cause you trust them to do the other thing. 

Kim: Yeah, I think it kind of goes to your question earlier about, um, you know, smaller independents or specialized agencies that, you know, I think, I think a lot of the business that is going, I mean, I think marketing should continue to work with experts in the field.

You're just gonna your loyalty program or your social media or your media. I mean, you're creative, your branding, like, you know, There is very few agencies that can do it all. And, um, and honestly they probably shouldn't want to anymore. That's probably why most of the holding companies have this little agency that does this and this medium sized agency that does this, because they know that, you know, the, um, BBDOs of the world don't necessarily do it all anymore.

Daniel: I'm curious, since you've worked in, uh, food a ton, uh, I would say food in general, franchise food, QSR, whatever you want to call it, is, The industry, oh, I work a ton in that industry a lot because of you. Thank you very much. But in general, I hear the most where people like, oh, we really want to make sure they have a ton of experience in this.

And it's like a different animal, according to a lot of marketing leaders that I talked to, which I don't necessarily. Disagree with but I also find from doing this that like just because they have that experience does by no means I find it just makes you sleep better at night often because it's like oh they worked with these people.

They can't be total monsters I'm curious what you how you view that in the lens of what you're currently doing. 

Kim: Um, no, I don't think I think if you You don't think you have to have food experience to work in food. Um, but I think you do have to demonstrate straight experience to span across industries effectively.

Yes. Is it easier? Does it make me feel better? If I know someone has already worked in food or retail, I can help envision it more. It is harder to envision, Hey, if you've only worked in tech, Or, you know, are you really going to be able to kind of jump into the restaurant business and understand it and talk in the way that we talk about it?

So it's a risk. I mean, we're marketers, we're all risk adverse on, we say we're, we want to take the risk, but sometimes we're a little nervous about, you know, if you make that one choice and, you know, they don't really end up working out for you. So it's just, what, what's your risk tolerance for bringing on someone that.

You know, doesn't have that, you know, quintessential food experience that, you know, someone like, like me, who I've been doing this for a little while, um, you know, someone like me has, 

Daniel: that's fair. What are you most excited about in the marketing space at the moment? I'm just going to start changing this question to say, don't say AI because so many others have said, unless it, unless it, unless it's really AI.

Kim: I'm not going to say AI because it doesn't, doesn't really excite me. 

Daniel: We love to hear it. I'm going to clip just that. That's the whole interview. You heard it here first. Kim Morales is not excited about AI. 

Kim: It's very cool. And I actually use it all the time. Um, this, 

Daniel: this could be, I don't even know if this is you, you could be, yeah, 

Kim: I'm just like, uh, you know, I've learned it.

Well, yeah, we'll continue to use it to the best we can. And machine learning has been around a little while, so, you know, it's definitely something that'll continue to be a big part of our jobs, but people. You need the people element no matter what, I think, in marketing. Um, but I think what makes me pumped, especially when you talk about restaurant marketers, like the best restaurant marketers right now are so good at, um, You know, finding the intersection of brand and culture and developing culturally relevant campaigns.

Um, I was just flipping through the, you know, one of our friends is on the, um, you know, powerless for nations. Restaurant news, I think. Um, and I was slipping through all the people on it. Now all the marketing folks were saying it's all about cultural relevance. Um, and they're all finding their unique ways.

So I think, you know, it's a fun challenge to me to think through, okay, how am I going to communicate this to my guests and how to connect with them in a different way? Um, and just putting another, you know, ad on, on Instagram isn't going to do it. I got to connect with them and something that's interesting to them.

Um, And I just, it's a fun challenge. And I, I just, I love that, that part of marketing. 

Daniel: Do you think TikTok will get banned? 

Kim: I don't. 

Daniel: I hope not. Cause I don't know what I'll do. 

Kim: How will you entertain yourself anymore? 

Daniel: It's my, it's my like therapy at night. That's like my, my comfort scrolling. 

Kim: Yeah. I think the, um, They have to find a U.

S. buyer by January is the is is the goal. But by then there could possibly be a new president. And and so who knows what? But I think there's also legal, you know, constitutional things behind that that doesn't necessarily make that. Something that can stand. So, uh, I try to avoid it until I'm, I totally am banned from using it, but I have a strong feeling it's not going away.

Daniel: I hope you're right. More than anything that you said on this podcast, uh, we will finish with a couple of fun ones here. What was your very first job? 

Kim: My first job. And I asked you like high school or after college, and I think you didn't, you were like kind of whatever, but my very first job. 

Daniel: No, I want the first job.

The very first job. 

Kim: Um, my first job was at Einstein bagels. 

Daniel: Love it. Yes, 

Kim: I chose that job because I didn't have to work evenings 

Daniel: Okay, 

Kim: and I could go in right after school be done by like six o'clock and they made me like a Like an opening or a closing manager when I was like still 17 

Daniel: Not even sure if that's legal Yeah Like 

Kim: Nobody really questioned it.

And finally a new manager came in. He's like, yeah, you can't be the manager, but it was, it was what I learned. What actually I learned a lot about, um, you know, teamwork and having fun. It was a lot of high school kids and I was in charge of the high school kids 

Daniel: while you were in high school, 

Kim: while I was in high school.

Um, but it was a bagel shop in the afternoons and who goes to a bagel shop in the afternoon? So we basically closed the restaurant. We had fun. We played like bagel baseball and. a 

Daniel: game as old as time, you know, classic bagel, dare I ask what bagel baseball is? 

Kim: Well, we would have these, um, polls that had the newspaper on them that like, it was like kind of stacked.

And so all the newspapers were wrapped up. So we would take out the polls and 

Daniel: this could be the interview that takes down Einstein bagels. 

Kim: They haven't had the, the best run as of late. So maybe it all started, you know, I was the beginning of the downhill. My 

Daniel: usual followup is, did you take anything from that job into your current role?

And I would guess maybe actually 

Kim: not the baseball. 

Daniel: I mean, more just like learning early on how the inner workings of, uh, that world works, multi, multi unit franchises. 

Kim: I never knew that I would be in restaurants for basically my career. I had no idea. So it was, yeah, I guess the 

Daniel: youngest Einstein's closing manager in the history of the entire group, potentially as well.

Kim: Possibly. I feel like maybe there's an award for me somewhere someday. 

Daniel: The next question we'll do a little two part. What would your final meal be if you could choose anything? 

Kim: There's so much good food in the world. That's hard. But I think I'm probably like just an amazing sushi roll made by some of them.

Daniel: One sushi roll? 

Kim: Well, maybe a lot of, 

Daniel: okay. I was going to say you can have more, 

Kim: a whole, one of those boats, like 

Daniel: a sushi boat checks out 

Kim: from like bond street sushi and, uh, New York or Nobu or something, something really fantastic. 

Daniel: What's your favorite menu item at Miller's 

Kim: right now? It is the Mimi's fiesta bowl.

Daniel: Okay. I don't remember if I tried that when I went, 

Kim: yeah, it's a grilled shrimp and grilled chicken on rice. A bunch of sauces and. And sides and it's just, it's delicious. 

Daniel: Okay. Love it. Uh, and my final question, who's somebody who inspires you personally, professionally, or both? And please don't say Casey. 

Kim: He does inspire me, but he's not who I'm going to say.

He 

Daniel: inspires something for sure. 

Kim: Um, I don't know. There's, there's so many and I was thinking like how I could, I don't think there's just one person, but I think, um, You know, over the course of my career, I've had some really great mentors and a lot of inspirational female leaders, um, that I think kind of, I've learned from, you know, pieces from what they've taught me throughout the years, kind of made me who I am today.

Daniel: Who you got? Well, we'll tag them on LinkedIn. 

Kim: Well, I think that, you know, um, Oh my gosh, there's so many. Um, Danielle Vona and Katie Knight and. Judy Popke and Lisa Duncan and Meg Jockanen. And I could keep going. This is 

Daniel: like an, this is like an, uh, like a Oscar awards, uh, when the music, when the music comes on, you're like, no, no, no, no.

I've got more. 

Kim: I'll have to send you the list. And some of my, you know, best pals still inspire me. We connect a lot. Um, you know, Christy Jobe and, um, Lisa Longest and, um, Becky Murray and all of my food mafia that. we so lovingly call my friends in the food industry. I was going 

Daniel: to say a gang, a gang, like no other.

Kim: I could go on and on, but yeah, I think I've been very fortunate to work with some very amazing, amazing people. But I think truly in the end, um, my family, my two daughters, I had just, you know, everything I do is for them. So I just love them tremendously and hopefully inspire them to. You know, be as best they can at school and work and everything they do in their lives.

So that's truly what all this is for is, you know, family and who we get spent our time. You're going to 

Daniel: make me cry on camera here again. No, that's great. 

Kim: We're going through all the emotions today, Daniel. 

Daniel: I was going to say, um, I'll let you give a plug if you want any new menu items or any new happenings at Miller's that people should, uh, should know about.

Kim: Well, I think, you know, our restaurants are really focusing on, you know, creating great experiences every day. Um, so, um, we have, uh, a, a new promotion coming up very soon that will feature our zingers as you've talked about, so keep an eye out for that. And then we also, um, are beginning a, a. Partnership with the American Cornhole League, which is everyone's favorite backyard, uh, summertime sport.

So we'll be doing a lot of, um, marketing and, um, partnership with them, um, over the coming months. So something that, and we talk about things that are fun and things that I'm excited about, that's, um, been a really fun partnership that I've worked on, so keep an eye out for stuff on that. 

Daniel: Love it. Cool. I suck at cornhole, but that's still exciting to hear.

Kim: Yes, I, I do too, so. Alright, cool. 

Daniel: Well, thank you very much for joining, uh, thank you for the opportunity to continue working with you, and we will chat with you soon. 

Kim: Alright, talk to you later.