Daniel: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the, you should talk to podcast. I am your host, your sponsor, your everything Daniel Wiener, you should talk to pairs, brands, and marketers for free with vetted agencies and or freelancers for pretty much any marketing or technique because finding great resource is a pain.

Excited to be joined today by Steph Hoppe, who is vice president of omnichannel marketing at Casey's, a Midwest and global, uh, Uh, cult classic. I have since learned in the past few weeks and months. How are you today, Steph? 

Steph: I am great. How are you, Daniel? 

Daniel: Wonderful. Uh, we will dive right in, but for those who are maybe like me who were not aware of Cayce's, I know, horrific, uh, tell us what Cayce's is.

Steph: I am just appalled. 

Daniel: I know. 

Steph: You know, Cayce's is a Midwest giant. If you're from the Midwest, you know all about Casey's. Our breakfast pizza is iconic. We're actually publicly traded a 15 billion company with 2, 600 units. We're the third largest convenience store, the fourth largest liquor license owner.

And if we were a pizza chain, We'd be the fifth largest pizza. 

Daniel: I love it. And everybody I know in the Midwest, to be clear, when it has, when I have asked them about Casey's, their eyes light up and I find that every single one of them has like some sort of Casey's story of either going there in high school or now with their families and stuff like that.

So, uh, yeah, it's exciting to chat. 

Steph: It is, it is. And a lot of our communities are less than 5, 000 people. So we truly are a part of the community and definitely part of the conversation. 

Daniel: Love it. We'll dive right in then. What is a unpopular opinion you have in the marketing world or a hot take of sorts? 

Steph: I would say, uh, data is overrated.

Daniel: I agree, actually. 

Steph: Tell me, tell me more. Well, I think sometimes your gut's just as effective. Uh, data overload, I think, is a real thing. So many data points that it gets confusing. If you have a few key insights, you can make a calculated Decision and run with it and sometimes and many times be very successful.

Data can sometimes mislead. It's I think marketing is art and science. And so it's just that blend and mix that really gets the magic going. 

Daniel: Yeah, I agree. I think people look to data too much. I'm with you at a certain point in your career. I think your gut is the best data point for many things, although data informs some of those decisions.

But. 

Steph: Yeah, good news, bad news. The more experience you get, the older you get, but you get better at some things. What's that? Uh, Trusting your gut? Trusting your gut and making decisions quickly. You know, you know what to go for and you just get things done. 

Daniel: That's fair. That makes me think of a question I constantly ask people, which this kind of leads into, even though this was, uh, this is unscripted.

This is the best part. I know. Crazy. Uh, how do you weigh, like, Data and performance type stuff with creativity and doing the creative thing even if the data doesn't say that or like you don't have a great justification for doing it other than it feels right and it's a creative idea. 

Steph: Really interesting.

Uh, we are getting ready to launch a new coffee brand. And what will be coming out in January? It's very exciting. It's Casey's darn good coffee and it's darn good. That's the brand. I love it. But doing the cup design, we actually walked away from what consumers told us to do because they're comfortable.

And I don't want comfortable. I want breakthrough. I want people to notice there's a dramatic change in the quality and what we're serving our guests with the coffee program that we're putting in place. So something that's close to the Casey's brand or looks very familiar was not the goal. The goal was to disrupt.

The goal is to really shake things up for a much better experience just to elevate that coffee experience. So we really had to take a look at The guest feedback and say, you know what, this is exactly what we don't want to do. 

Daniel: I love that. I'll have to check back in and, uh, how, how long till we find out if, how, if the bet pays off March or April, give me March or April.

Steph: Gimme a 

Daniel: ring. Okay. That's fair. If it's better, I'll call you earlier. Okay. That's a perfect. You've had quite the set of experiences. I'm not surprised to hear you trusted your gut. We've got Chili's, Red Robin, 7 11, Cece's and now Casey's where I would argue you get to market in my opinion, one of the coolest things around, among other things, pizza.

I'm curious, what have you seen along kind of the career journey in terms of consumer behavior? Gosh, 

Steph: um, it's changed dramatically. It used to be, you know, a guy might have said Chili's, uh, chains and brands were the icons. They were loved. They were trusted. You looked, you searched for chains and go to current day.

Antithesis. People want local. People want farm to table. People want specialty. Not necessarily a general casual dining menu, although Chili's has done some really good work lately to simplify. And it's got some really good results. Their triple dipper went viral. Their triple dipper. Yeah, it did. It really did.

And so, uh, it's, it's just people now own brands, brands used to own the branding, but now it's what people say about your brand that gets more play time necessarily than what you say about it. So when we start talking about omni channel, it makes it more, even more important that you're getting to your guests or your customers.

in a relevant way that's authentic and giving them a message that they want to hear at the time. So marketing has just gotten complex as all get out. 

Daniel: I agree. The internet ruined everything for everyone. 

Steph: Man, and COVID didn't help. So I mean, it's just, uh, The old days of FSIs and radio and TV, gone. 

Daniel: Yeah, I think that's interesting though.

I feel the brands that lean into their perception or their customer perception versus fighting it are the ones who continuously win, largely on social media and stuff like that. Do you agree with that? 

Steph: Completely. Uh, don't try to be something you're not. And we get tired of ourselves internally with marketing, but our guests don't necessarily do so.

In fact, that's why they love us. Uh, you know, we're gas station pizza. We have been for years and will be for years to come. It's what we do best. We do great breakfast pizza. We have great service. It's just we do things you just don't expect at a traditional gas station convenience store. And that's what we'll continue to do.

Daniel: I love that. Um, I think the common narrative I hear at least, I think people thought 2024 might have been like a little rosier than it turned out to be for some brands. And I still see, you know, the common theme of marketers are being asked to do more with less achieve the same results, if not more. I'm curious.

What's your best piece of advice to other folks in, you know, your similar seats of marketing leadership roles of how to survive and thrive in the rest of this year, as well as beyond in 2025? 

Steph: Sure. Yeah, a couple things because it's a real thing. It's happening. First of all, I think you need to take a step back and really understand as a marketing leader, understand your job functions, getting back to take away.

Get rid of all of that and go into basic job functions. What does your organization need to do to achieve your business goals? Because that should be your primary strategy. So what can you do in house versus outsource? What's more effective? Because outsourcing isn't always more efficient. And sometimes, many times, it's a hybrid.

But when you look at what work needs to get done in sourcing and outsourcing, what I've seen in several situations that you come to a much more efficient department process and better results. The other piece is have frank conversations with your vendor partners and your agency partners. Times are tough.

How can we work together? smartly. How can we save costs? We switched a production strategy that gave us significant savings. We still have great results, but we're doing the less production activity using spots more often doing more evergreen approach that we worked on. So that really makes a difference if you just have to think differently and get scrappy.

Daniel: Yeah, I think the, uh, what you just said about reusing stuff, uh, is wild. Like even for me on a significantly smaller scale, I post a ton on LinkedIn. I do this podcast. I forget all the time that like three people see these things in the grand scheme of things. And if I come on, there's at least four, at least four or five.

This one, this one's going to be big. I can feel it. No, like I can repost the same thing with a different thought and it's brand new content to many people and brands have the luxury of doing that as well and forget, um, so no, I totally agree and I think to your point, uh, the biggest learning I see with the hybrid approach, which I totally agree is usually like there's no quote unquote right set up, but that's usually the right set up is so many people think I think that outsourcing and hiring an agency or a third party in general.

It's just a magic bullet and they forget they need a good amount of resources to manage that relationship and make that partner successful. So I still find folks that are don't have the manpower internally to kind of enable an agency or a third party to do the best work possible. And I think that's an issue I see in 2024 because budget goes to one or the other first year point doing a hybrid approach.

Steph: Absolutely. And depending on budget optics, how people view working dollars, non working dollars, that can also affect the decision to insource or outsource. It really just depends on the company. 

Daniel: Mo money, mo problems, you know. Uh, most folks in your role that I speak to, which I'll define as anything above, Uh, senior director at, at any sort of brand with any sort of perceived budget are getting hit up 27 million times per week, virtually everywhere.

LinkedIn, uh, other social networks, their inbox, especially phone calls, texts. Is this the case for you? Oh yeah. What is your, uh, your, you, you just gave, uh, some tactical tips to the marketing leader out there. You had to look in the camera and give a PSA to, uh, agencies out there or vendors who want to work with you, which is presumably, uh, most agencies, I would say.

What, what do you tell them? How, how can they break through the noise, if anything? 

Steph: Be a problem solver, not a problem giver. Understand my pain points, make them go away. If you can do that, I'll talk to you. And know my business. I've had cold calls where they don't even bother to go into a Casey's. If you don't know my business, that's, the door will be shut very quickly.

But really, it's all about, It's bringing solutions and partnerships that make my 

Daniel: business better. Are you into taking calls proactively though when you're not in market for something? If somebody, is there anything somebody could say on a random Tuesday when you're not looking for something that could make you take a call?

Steph: Again, if it's related to something I'm working on and I'm not necessarily taking calls. I have conversations here and there just because someone gets my attention or they bring out a relevant saw you in social X, Y, and Z like, huh, okay, let's talk. 

Daniel: Yeah. It's interesting. I, I totally agree with what you said of knowing your business.

I find I get, this is episode, I think 48 or something like that. Oh, wow. On the way to 50. Uh, I'm super stubborn stuff. I'll get to a hundred because I have to tell myself I got to a hundred. Uh, fun fact, if you record 21 episodes, you're in the top 1 percent of podcasts in the world because everybody gives up.

So, Oh my God, you're on a top 1 percent podcast right now. So I'm feeling 

Steph: very special, very special. 

Daniel: I hear from a lot of VPs and CMOs that while they want somebody to, somebody to understand their business when they're talking, there is some sort of like middle ground because they're not. They also don't want somebody presumptuous who just because they walked into a Casey's once thinks they know your business entirely and all the problems that you're dealing with.

Do you have a thought on that? 

Steph: Yeah, I think it's, it, be humble and be realistic. I think, uh, one visit does not make you an expert, but you made an effort. The proof is in the pudding when you have an ongoing relationship and they get in your business. So when you have a partner in agencies, especially that they feel like an extension of your team and they care about your business as much as you do.

I mean, sales, they want to see sales daily. Are things working? They're vested. That's what you look for in a partner is someone who's vested in your mutual success, right? Sure. It's not just about the client. It's about true partnership. That's always the way I've rolled. It's just, you got to be partners and help each other and be successful.

And that's when things really do well. I agree. 

Daniel: Uh, I've seen a big shift, especially since COVID, uh, of bigger brands moving towards smaller independent agencies who are specialized that call it one to two services. What do you think of that trend? And kind of, how do you think of your, your agency makeup, um, at Casey's?

Steph: I think it's a trend that's bigger than just agencies, similar to the restaurant analogy that I talked about earlier. I think it's smart because things change so fast, especially in the social world, to stay up with that. That's a full time job in my mind. So, and I think having, uh, Smaller houses are more nimble and you can get more versus a larger house.

So for instance, we have several agencies that we work with in varying sizes, depending on their expertise and that it really works well. It's worked well for me at CCS and Life Kitchen and now at Casey's. It's, it It's a good blend to create great 

Daniel: success. Awesome. Can you think of a really great agency experience you've had over the course of your career at any of the brands, truthfully, and what made it so great?

Steph: Yes. 

Daniel: I'd love to hear. I'd 

Steph: love to hear. Yes. Okay, I guess I'll tell you. So at Cici's, we needed to create a new brand campaign Bring on a new media agency in less than eight weeks. We, we also had to do an RFP prior, so in about 12 weeks we brought on a new agency. We had a creative agency that was running, so we just had to fill out some other places.

So we did, and. We were up 20 percent two weeks into the campaign for about 20 weeks. That was when I trusted my gut. We didn't have time for creative testing, so we had to go and they had the right partners in place and everybody partnered. And by the way, mistakes happened and they owned up to them right away.

We didn't do this. We didn't get this done. I appreciate that. That authenticity and transparency priceless share the good, the bad and the ugly and celebrate all. 

Daniel: I'm curious to like go a little bit further. What was the actual, was it the work? Was it the speed and nimbleness on a goofy timeline of sorts?

Or like, was it all of it collectively, them all working together and not trying to steal business from each other? What was the like takeaway from it? 

Steph: It truly was a team effort and the creative was awesome. Um, and the new segmentation and the targeting was Phenomenal compared to where we were, we just skyrocketed due to just basic smart marketing that just hadn't been in place, quite honestly, beforehand.

The fundamentals just weren't there. So you start doing some of the basics and the fundamentals and it makes an impact. And then you have really smart people and smart partners that do are highly collaborative, no egos. Just let's get the work done, and let's have a win. 

Daniel: That's great. We'll do the, uh, we'll do the other side now.

Uh, negative agency experience you've had in the past, and what made it so negative? 

Steph: Dun, dun, dun, 

Daniel: dun. 

Steph: Yeah, I know, mood music. Yeah, I do. Awards and egos were more important than my business results. 

Daniel: How so? 

Steph: Uh, Doing creative. That was it meant to get an award, not necessarily drive my business at a very high cost that we had to go back and forth on quite a bit until finally we just had to part ways.

Daniel: Gotcha. I don't want you to name the agency, but I'm curious. How did those conversation or how did you arrive at that conclusion? Or was it super blunt? Like, Hey, we want to win an award with this stuff. 

Steph: I was super blunt. That's done with this one thing. I'm from Iowa, the Midwest. We are direct shout out Caitlin Clark.

Got to get her on next. You know, there you go. Yay. Uh, no, it's, it's just very direct conversations of this is not going to work. This doesn't make sense from a budget standpoint. Appreciate the idea. Really appreciate the creative. very respectful of that. But this isn't where we want to go. And this is where our leadership wants to go.

It's too aggressive and it kept coming back and third times the charm. And it's like, okay, I think we need to have a conversation. 

Daniel: Unfortunately, I see. I'm curious. I talk about this a ton. I actually posted about it 20 minutes before this podcast that I think overall, like we've worked together. I like to think I'm very blunt.

Well, you know, I tell like it is, and I find in my experience lately, more than ever, like people are afraid to pick up the phone agencies are afraid to call their clients. Like when stuff goes, uh, I wouldn't even say bad when things come up, which undoubtedly do. Do you find that in your career in general, like people shy away from the tough conversations or you haven't dealt with that as much?

I'm curious. 

Steph: No, I think people tend to shy away from, uh, tough conversations. It's just human nature. It's natural. Uh, that's it. not necessarily my experience. I don't shy away from tough conversations. It's probably I'm I'd like change management. I like evolution. So that's just the beast. But I also I'm very up front when I start a new relationship that mistakes are gonna happen.

It's not if it's just when and it's okay because if you're not making mistakes, you're not pushing yourself. So if we have something that goes awry, great, let's learn from it. Let's not do it again. But that's both in the way I manage teams and the way I approach partnerships, agencies, vendors. It's again, uh, we're human things happen, life happens, universe happens.

So, you know, you have to deal with it. 

Daniel: What are you most excited about and bullish on in the marketing space at the moment, uh, outside of AI? I'm sick of hearing people tell me about, uh, AI. I need something new and fresh. 

Steph: You are so safe. AI, bleh. I'm with ya! You know, selfishly, I'm really excited about our campaign, It's Not Crazy, It's Casey's.

That is just, it's so on brand, uh, serving up unexpected goodness. because we do things that nobody else does. It's been really fun and the teams and our employees, they love it. We have some T we have t shirts. Everybody wants a t shirt. Yeah. I want to, I want a t shirt. Do we note it? Thank you. You'll have to give me your size afterwards.

And we'll figure that one out. Sport in the Casey shirt. Love it. Love it. Uh, you know, it's fun. And then, you know, um, and I'll speak out of both sides of my mouth. I'm also really excited about the fact you can quantify your marketing results these days. It makes conversations, especially with leadership and boards, much easier when you have facts to support what your efforts are doing and what's happening.

So I think those are a couple things, but most, more so the new campaign. 

Daniel: Is there anything from like a macro standpoint? point. Like I've leaned entirely into in person dinners. I find there's no greater way for me to get in front of other brands by inviting them out to do stuff in person free from agencies or vendors.

Do you have any thing that you're seeing or excited about or anything you're excited to attend or 

Steph: yeah, you know, it's um, I think what's really interesting is we got so virtual, especially with covid. That people got they're used to screens. I mean I'll have meetings here and people will be on screen I'm like you're two doors down get in the room.

Yeah, let's connect because that in person connections very different Then then otherwise, I'm getting ready to go to NACS, which will be exciting I haven't been there for quite some time because I've been out of the c store space But it's it's it's great just to network and connect Uh, and I, but at Nats is really large.

I really like more of the boutique events. Me too. Media Post does some really good stuff. Other places, they have some nice smaller, uh, events that really align people and you can have good conversations and make connections that quite frankly can really last. Sure. And that's, that's really nice. Yeah. And a good meal.

Never, never, I'll never turn down a good meal. 

Daniel: That's good. Well, I'll have to fly you in for my next one. Um, you brought up something interesting. about, you know, getting in the room and all of that sort of stuff. I'm curious. I go back and forth on this. Do you think agencies or I guess if you're looking for an agency and it's an apples to apples comparison and you're picking and one agency is remote and the other has, you know, an office presence and they're in there every day, like, does that come into your mind when you're evaluating partners?

Steph: Uh, it used to, it does, it is a factor, but if I look at it now, I'm, I don't have any agencies that are based here in Des Moines. 

Daniel: Right. 

Steph: So you can still go and connect. You just have to work at it a little more to get the face to face time. But anymore, I think it's about getting the right talent. And silver lining around COVID, you realize you don't have to be in the same city to get great work done.

And that meant, which is a good thing, but if I had an awesome agency in Des Moines, that'd be great because you have that interconnection and connectivity. But it's the work and the team and the talent are often chosen, always chosen over location. 

Daniel: Yeah, I think COVID was kind of a great equalizer for agencies because people realize the talent is distributed all over the place and you don't have to go to New York or California, a huge market just to find a really amazing talent.

No, you do not. What keeps you up at night and stresses you out from a marketing or business standpoint? 

Steph: Uh, I think it's The state of the consumer. It's an election year. It's, it's, it's intense. The economy's intense. People are stressed. That's the health of the consumer. Those are things I think about.

Daniel: When I stress eat, I eat pizza. 

Steph: Yeah, I know, but still. There's a balance here. 

Daniel: Do you see quantifiable things in an election year? 

Steph: It depends. It depends. We, you know, we've noticed a few changes here and there. We're very lucky to be such a healthy business. Just the nature of the smaller towns that we're in and the metropolitans that we're in.

I think we're a little more bulletproof, but we never take anything for granted because you don't know what you don't know. 

Daniel: Yeah, no, I'm with you. We will finish with some fun ones. What was your very first job? Babysitter. Love it. What did you, uh, do you take anything, uh, from that into, uh, today's world, to, into your current role?

Anything that you're using on a daily basis? 

Steph: From babysitting? I could go, I could say something really politically incorrect. I was going to say only four people watch this anyway. Okay, very good. No, you might get six with this comment. Okay. No, it's actually, you know, how to take care of people. You have to take care of your people.

I figured that was your, uh, that was your politically 

Daniel: correct answer. 

Steph: That's my politically correct answer. You can think of anything else you'd like. Uh, no, I think, yeah, 

Daniel: babysitter. Outside of Casey's, of course, what would your final meal be? 

Steph: I'd have to say truffle french fries. 

Daniel: Okay. 

Steph: It would be pepperoni pizza.

Daniel: Okay. 

Steph: And champagne. Okay, what kind of champs? Well, I do like a good Charles Heisick, or a Vouv. 

Daniel: Good to know. 

Steph: Uh huh, I know, very intuitive. What can I say? Love to hear it. 

Daniel: Um, enjoy that if a bottle shows up. I will virtually. Who is somebody who inspires you personally, professionally or both? 

Steph: It'd be both.

It's my sister, Sarah. She's my youngest sister. Uh, she has had her own agency, uh, for 15 years. Why haven't I met her? I don't know. I think we'll have to do that. Boutique agency out of Minneapolis. Yeah, she's great. And she's a mom. And great husband. But, I mean, She handles mom starting a business with a partner.

She just navigates everything. And she also tap dances and she has fun and she has friends and she goes 24 seven. She 

Daniel: sounds like an overachiever. I don't want to talk to her. I'll feel worse about myself. 

Steph: Oh no. And then she's as chill as you can get. She's the one that'll be like, Steph, slow down, just take a breather.

Daniel: Love to hear it. Uh, that was my final question. I want you to give another plug for Casey's though. Outside of what you talked about or just to reiterate, we've got a new coffee program. 

Steph: Yes. That 

Daniel: launches in January. 

Steph: In January, it's coming, it'll be coming to a Casey's soon near you, so we'll have them all installed by November.

Okay. New, new, new beans, some equipment upgrades. 

Daniel: It's not crazy it's Casey's campaign. 

Steph: It started, you should be seeing that everywhere. 

Daniel: Okay. Absolutely. And what else should people, uh, In or near or traveling to an area with the Casey's be on the lookout for anything exciting? 

Steph: Yeah, I tell you what if you're uh coming to the Des Moines area We've got some new wings coming out little rock your world and that jalapeno popper pizza in market right now with mike's hot honey.

Yum 

Daniel: Okay, love to hear it. Really good. Thank you so much for joining us. This was awesome. And uh, yeah stay on the line I'm gonna take you up on the t shirt offer. 

Steph: Okay, sounds great. It was fun. Thank you