Go Bold or Go Home with Robert Dimson

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Daniel: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the You Should Talk to Podcast. I am Daniel Wiener, your host. You should talk to pairs, brands, and marketers for free, with vetted agencies and or freelancers for virtually any marketing or technique. Because finding great agencies is incredibly difficult. Finding an agency is easy.

Finding the right agency is hard. Today I am joined by my pal, Robert Dimson, who is the a [00:01:00] VP of product Marketing at Cox Automotive. Uh, semi-pro, former basketball player, collegiate athlete, now, uh, now high school referee as well. Yeah, exactly, man. Robert, thank you for joining. How are we? Hey. 

Robert: I'm doing great, man.

Thanks for having me. This is gonna be exciting. 

Daniel: I love it. We were just talking before, so I'll ask now before we even get into the marketing stuff. Who's gonna win the tournament? Oh, we got, we got a big sweet 16 tomorrow. 

Robert: Yeah, we do. You know, and so for me, I, I, you know, I got Houston, you know, okay. I'm not, I'm not sold on Houston yet.

Look, I'm telling you, just listen here. And my theory, they're scrappy, right? But also. Kelvin s Samson has been in it. He's taken what, maybe three or four teams like this far or even further? 

Daniel: Yeah, 

Robert: it's his, it is his time. And so I picked based on coaches as opposed to the teams or just like players in general.

So that's going what I think that he is due, it's his time. All right. 

Daniel: I'm, I'm pulling for the TURPs. I don't know. I, they got a tough one against Florida, but, uh, we'll, we'll see what happens tomorrow. Yeah. Hundred percent. 

Robert: So that'll be fun. 

Daniel: It's always 

Robert: good 

Daniel: time, low productivity weeks. It. I [00:02:00] totally agree.

It's the per the perks of working for myself, I've canceled everything. So, um, no, we'll flow right into it. My favorite question of the podcast to start, what is your most unpopular opinion you have of the, uh, the marketing universe or a, a hot take of sorts to kick us off? 

Robert: Uh, that's a good one, man. You know, I think in, in today's, you know, marketing landscape and how we're leveraging data, um, I think it's absolutely necessary.

However, I would say that. There might be a little bit of, I would say, loss of importance around creativity, around intuition, and just like your general gut feeling, right? I think the prevalence of data is fantastic, but the reliance on it to, you know, basically do your segmentation. Obviously first party data is huge, ingesting it into a CDP, and maybe even some third party data, like I get it.

But at the same time, like we're marketers at the core and. You know, doing this a long time, and I think having the data is definitely [00:03:00] helpful, but at the same time, I don't want it to take away from, again, that creativity. Right? So while it might be unpopular where we're kind of seeing everything go in regards to, again, the reliance on data, I think, hey, let's continue to be creative and maybe think outside of this whole data, you know, platform to make sure that we ingest it with that level of intuition and gut feeling because.

At the end of the day, I think our experience and understanding the customer at the end of, you know, at the, and the outcomes that we're trying to drive, um, is I would say a little bit inherent within us as marketers. So, yeah, you gave me an unpopular take, but that's kind of where I stand on it. 

Daniel: I it probably is unpopular.

I agree with you. I think that's presumably where marketers, earn their salaries or, uh, make a name for themselves if they go against the data. I'm trying to think who it was they were on. My podcast, I wanna say it was Steph Hoppy of Casey's, right? Uh, the, the Midwest Pizza brand we were talking about.

I think they did a, a, a [00:04:00] survey or, or something and their gut feeling was to go against the data and they ended up being right. Um, interesting. I'm with you. I think you can make data say a lot of things. I'm sure the agencies out there listening won't love that. But I think to your point, uh, you can take a report and make the data, uh, support.

Or go against, you know, uh, what you think. So I'm with you. We have a lack of creativity these days. 

Robert: Yeah. Yeah. And, and you know what, actually Daniel, I think that's a good point in regards to like how agencies leverage it and maybe present it back to a client and saying, Hey, this is the direction that we should absolutely go.

Um, maybe the opportunity there is kind of giving us the alternative as well, you know, in addition to saying, Hey, look, this is what the data's saying, but here's kind of what we're thinking as well. You know, you kind of as the client or whomever, you guys kind of make the strategic decision based on your objectives that you're trying to achieve, what outcomes you're trying to drive.

But here's. Maybe a slight alternative that's looking at the data, interpreting it maybe a slightly different way, but more reliance on your [00:05:00] gut and intuition and kind of understanding the landscape that they're operating within. So I think that's a good point you just made in regards to the agency, kind of, you know, presenting, uh, the data in maybe a, a slightly different fashion.

If the data was always right, all the one seeds would 

Daniel: win, you know, every, every year. 

Robert: Right. Could you imagine that? That's a good, uh, good reference, man. Yeah. 

Daniel: I'm, I'm, I would love to tie in the, the current, uh, sports landscape. So Yes. Um, you've had an interesting set of experiences leading up to Cox, I would say a lot of food.

We've got Arby's, McAllisters, churches, chicken toys are US, and now at Cox. 

Robert: Yeah. 

Daniel: Tell us a little about that journey, and I'm always interested on the consumer side, like what have you. Seen, maybe, maybe nothing has changed. And you say it's all the same, what have you just seen around consumer behavior and how it's evolved over that time period?

Yeah, 

Robert: and you know, good point and you know, I'll even back it up maybe a little bit further before the kind of client side career and you know, the agency time that I spent with Tracy Locke initiative on the media side and Kara as well, uh, was I think instrumental in kind of [00:06:00] helping propel my career into this, you know, the client side space.

You miss it, 

Daniel: miss the madness of the agency life. 

Robert: Yeah. You know what, actually it, it, I think it's kind of come full circle. We'll, I, I think we might be able to get into it a little bit later, but kind of seeing some of these agencies and how they work and some of the, uh, you know, evolution of, uh, how they're coming to market and what their recommendations are.

And I, I think it's very interesting. So I don't miss the entire thing, but I would say that, um. You know, there is maybe a little bit of, uh, a nod and a wink to say, man, that's pretty cool the stuff that they're doing now. But, you know, as it relates to, uh, you know, the trajectory of a career and so forth, and kind of how that relates to.

You know, seeing how the customer behavior has changed over those, those years. I won't mention how long it's been, it's been a while, but, um, but with those experiences, you know, what was unique was like, primarily with Arby's, it was really around the brand itself, right? I mean, obviously we, you know, got some products in there, some really cool stuff.

Everybody knows it. For roast beef, there was some chicken salad sandwiches and stuff like that that were [00:07:00] introduced. Uh, so we had a fundamental responsibility of driving revenue through our products, right? And, and generating sales. But at the same time, it was really focused on the anchoring of the brand.

And back then the brand was super strong, right? And so that's kind of what the reliance was, was primarily again, on that brand side. Then you go over to, uh, you know, something like, uh, you know, our churches, uh, which is a little bit more reliant on, I would say, kind of the customer needs state's, a unique customer set, right?

Um. And so it, it was a different approach, um, as opposed to like just being reliant on the brand. It was more reliant on, um, again, that, that customer needs state, understanding where they were within their, you know, I would say their, um, shopping, uh, behavior, um, in the areas that they, you know, uh, the trade areas that the locations were.

Sure. And then with Mcal, what was pretty cool about that was a really a high level. Sense of community, right? It was really about like the local community within that specific trade area. So [00:08:00] it wasn't like, Hey, we've got this massive, you know, national brand that is highly recognizable all over the country.

It was more really about how do we entrench ourselves in the local community? How are we supporting it? You know, obviously drawing workers from the local community. Uh, how are we giving back in the area that we operate within? So that was a lot of fun. So if you're actually to go to a McAllisters these days, what we did were, you know, kind of instrumental in doing was making sure that that customer experience felt the locality, if you will, of McAllisters right in their area.

So if you go to one, you'll see kind of like an, like an Instagram Instagramable piece of like, you know, Atlanta or Roswell or you know, Austin, Texas or whatever it might be, just to kind of have that connection to the community. So. I thought that was really unique and kind of how that manifested. And then, you know, with, with Toys Us, which was interesting to under, you know, from a consumer perspective is maybe the opposite.

And what I mean by [00:09:00] that, Daniel is kind of when I was there, um, you know, still kind of in the heyday, you know, toys R Us, you know, babies are Rus really clicking. But I think maybe had a little bit of a perspective and, you know, hindsight is, or or mis perspective of hindsight's 2020. E-commerce started to come to fruition, right?

Yeah. And that was not something that we were totally tapped into and hence the bankruptcy in like, you know, what is it, 2015 or something like that. Uh, with that organization now, since they've tried to make a comeback, but at the same time it's kind of the opposite side. They missed that consumer, I would say engagement opportunity for e-commerce, making it easy, making it more convenient, uh, to find the products and get them.

As opposed to actually physically having to come to the store. So I think that was an interesting kind of take on it. And then finally here at Cox, it's really all about personalization. Now it's different, right? I'm on the B2B side, which is, uh, obviously different than the consumer experiences that I've been responsible for throughout my career with those brands that I just mentioned.

Um, but the [00:10:00] uniqueness of being able to kind of have a personalized. You know, a campaign, whether it's through account based marketing or something that's very targeted based on a product need that we're trying to, you know, that we're trying to fill for our dealers or, or, or the OEMs is, is a different, um, experience.

So I would say I'd wrap it up and just kind of say, Hey, look, from a standpoint of understanding the kind of the, um, evolution of, you know, the. C consumer and now my customer experience, it has changed. Whether it was focused on brand, whether it's focused on the individual product, whether it's focused on like an e-commerce experience, the local, you know, touch and feel.

It's little bit of, a little bit all over the board. But the good thing about it is I've been able to kind of leverage all of those to make my. Uh, you know, campaigns and market very, very strong to get that overall engagement that, uh, we absolutely need, especially here at Cox Automotive. 

Daniel: That's great. I'm actually curious, one of my somewhat unpopular opinions, 'cause I help with, you know, the gamut of, uh, consumer clients and B2B [00:11:00] clients, uh, or brands.

Do you think, like, I don't think B2B and B2C are. That astronomically different. 'cause I take the opinion again, like, you know, maybe at a, at a company level you're targeting, but we're all, I, I used to joke at my old agency, everybody's still scrolling their phones while sitting on the toilet. You know, like, uh, you know, until that changes, I don't know that somebody will convince me that, again, I know there's different tactics, different technology, tech stacks, all that sort of stuff.

Yeah. But do you think at the core of it as a marketer, like B2B and B2C, are that fundamentally different? Um, you're, you're allowed to disagree with me too on this podcast, 

Robert: so 

Daniel: I won't, I won't kick you off. 

Robert: Yeah, no, it's all good, man. I'm, you know, I, I would say that maybe 10 years ago there was kind of a fundamental difference in the way that B2B and B2C went to market in the sense that it is like B two B2B was more like, Hey, here's the brochure you were trying to drive.

Either a, a pure lead to the sales team. For them to be able to go and close the creative, um, was probably a little bit more stifled. And what I'm starting to [00:12:00] see now and we're actually employing it also, is this melding and this merging, if you will, of kind of the creative aspect and messaging of B2B and B2C.

I was talking about it the other day at, I think it was a, um, an event at MailChimp, and I think they've done actually a fantastic job. If you look at their creative and messaging primarily with MailChimp, obviously I know it's Intuit company, but with MailChimp specifically, they've done a great job Yeah.

Of making it feel like you're, you know, just, it's, it's just a marketing campaign. Right. Um, Adobe's done a nice job of it as well, so, you know, they know. I would say that it, it is starting to change and it has, and the reason being is I think that, you know, marketers have realized that it's just marketing to people.

Right. Yeah. It's like this, we call it, I think P two P instead of B2B, which is like person to person, right? And so regardless of whether or not I am, you know, coming into work and I'm listening to. You know, uh, more of a [00:13:00] specific type of news channel or whatnot, and I hear an ad, or if I'm listening to a podcast and I hear an ad that might be for, you know, a service that, like a Salesforce or something that I might le leverage for a CRM or something.

It's like, it's still me. I, they, they just understand that I, hey, I might work at a, I might happen to work at a place where, um, where I could leverage that, that software, that solution. And the last thing is one of our agencies brought this to fruition also, and it was more so not just on the creative side of it, just kinda like we're talking about, but also on the media piece.

They're working with, I wanna say like IBM Watson, right? And um, one of the highest indexing programs that they were using to target their, you know, users was Stranger Things. You know, right. So it's like you don't just have to operate within the trades as well, right? You can broaden, you can expand your reach.

You can try to tap into areas that you might not necessarily think that those quote unquote workers or people are, um, but they're there, right? And so I think you gotta [00:14:00] look at it on both sides, the creativity and start to kind of understand that we have, what I say, more freedom within the framework to leverage emotion, to leverage humor.

You know, those types of things to get that engagement, but then also on the media side as well, you gotta look at it from both angles. 

Daniel: Yeah, I think if you're an agency, uh, working on B2B clients and you're not trying to push that pendulum a little bit, I mean, again, I'm trying, I can't think of the podcast that I listen to, that LinkedIn advertising is one of their like biggest, um, you know, live reads that they do throughout, which is a hundred percent, you know, targeted well to me while I'm listening to that.

So, yep. That, that kind of rolls into the next question. Well, uh, I think what I hear when I talk to, uh, mostly CMOs and VPs is 2025 has been weird so far, uh, economically, and I, I think I. What I heard towards the end of last year a lot was, we've just gotta get through the election and then things will be, you know, normal and like, we'll, we'll know what's going on and stuff.

And I think 2025 is shaping up, uh, to be a little weirder than people, uh, anticipated. I guess there's, I'm starting to hear about layoffs, [00:15:00] unfortunately. Uh, what's your best piece of advice to other marketing leaders out there about how to, uh, survive, thrive, and stand out in 2025? 

Robert: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

You know, it is interesting to kind of see, you know, the, the level of focus. I just actually. Heard something this morning saying that the consumer outlook, uh, is like at a 12 year low right now. You're starting to see kind of, you know, some changes, layoffs and so forth. Especially in our industry. I think Audi just laid off like 7,500 people.

I was gonna say all 

Daniel: your, your former life as well. Food and franchise. Yeah. Stuff is, uh, is hurting at the moment. It is, 

Robert: it is. Tough landscape out there. But you know, from a marketing standpoint, what I would, I would say, just kind of reiterate to. You know, some of the marketers out there and agencies as well is like, continue to be bold, right?

Um, continue to be aggressive. The, especially in my space, the cool thing about it, Daniel, is like, because it's software as a service, I'm not selling the widgets. I don't have to be re too responsible in regards to like, Hey, the avocados that I'm selling right now are gonna go bad if we don't move these things.

So there's a [00:16:00] little bit more freedom to be able to say, Hey, let's try some AB testing to understand whether or not a campaign generates a high level of engagement or not. And if not, then heck we pull it down and put, you know, the A up and let that, you know, or the B whichever one wins out. Um, to be able to kind of go forward.

And so I think, you know, what I'm starting to see and stay is like continue to be aggressive to keep, continue to keep your foot on the gas. Um, you know, you know, I would say a decisive manner that doesn't necessarily disrupt, you know, the business operations too much. But at the same time, if you don't, then I think the conservative nature.

Of, you know, a marketer might not necessarily break through a lot of the cutter clutter that we see today. And what I always say is that, you know, we're operating in some cases, especially on the B2B side, you can get, you know, swimming in this sea of sameness. And if you're not bold and take some risks to kind of stand out, then I don't think necessarily a consumer or a customer would notice.

Right. And so that would be my kind of [00:17:00] one take in, in this quote unquote, you know, scary landscape and. I think what resonated, what's always resonated with me, I think it was Warren Buffet who might have said it was like, you know when people are running out and they're, you know, the building's on fire, it is like that's when I'm running in and buying stuff up, right?

Yeah. So if you take that kind of approach, it's kinda like, okay, maybe that's something you could kind of, you know, leverage on the side of marketing. It is just to continue to be aggressive and be bold. I like it. I 

Daniel: think that's a testament to like a little above the CMO level, like the CEOs who give the latitude in scary times to Yeah.

Or boards at that level who give the latitude to the cmo or the VP to, like, if you're, if you feel confidently about this, like, uh, we trust you to do that versus doing, you know, the, the safe bet. 

Robert: Absolutely. No, a hundred percent agree. That's what you got to have is, like you said, that latitude and that level of freedom, uh, as long as the business kind of trusts you and.

And, you know, believes in kind of your overall approach. And obviously you're able to kind of show a favorable either ROI or some engagement. Then I [00:18:00] think then, you know, the, the, the latitude expands, right? But I'm just like, gosh, just tired of like seeing the same thing over and over. You know, it's lacking engagement, it's lacking the creativity.

Kinda like we talked about at the top of the call in regards to leveraging the data, but missing the intuition, missing the gut feeling. That's still critical and that's allows you to kind of be bold and take maybe some risks that other brands might not necessarily take. 

Daniel: Our, uh, our mutual friend Jamie Horowitz, said on this podcast, a line that I loved of you, you earn the right to like do the crazy stuff.

You know, like if you do the, the normal stuff well and you know, you earn that trust, you earn the right to like. Take some big bets or bigger bets, uh, to leadership and stuff. So 

Robert: yeah, in hoops terms, I would be like, Hey, I'm hot. I can take a heat check. You gotta 

Daniel: take a heat check. You know, Robert, you gotta walk right into it.

I won't bring up our basketball experience. I don't wanna, I don't wanna put you on the spot with that. Speaking of heat checks, I was injured. I was injured that day, dude. That's, that's fair. You know, neither, neither here nor there. Um, I'm curious. Everybody I speak to 100% with [00:19:00] your title at companies like Cox, I think agencies think.

Robert's just sitting at his desk with a bunch of money on the table ready to dole out checks left and right to agencies. Uh, I'm curious, are you getting hit up LinkedIn, you know, uh, text message, email every single day to a, a ridiculous degree? 

Robert: Yeah, I do quite a, quite often. I, my LinkedIn is pretty full all the time when I'm checking it and just kind of sorting through the, you know, the, the, the messaging can get daunting, right.

Uh, is there, is 

Daniel: there a way an agency can, if you're not in market for an agency? I'm always curious, is there a, a way, a lot of people tell me no, truthfully, like, it's just, it's hard to, you know, find the time to take those calls. Are you, you know, interested? Is there a way an agency can break through when you're not in market for an agency and get on your radar?

Robert: Yeah, I mean, I look quite honestly, I think, you know, the, the cold call or cold email, I mean, that just gets lost. It's just some level of noise Real quick. I had an example just literally yesterday, [00:20:00] um, somebody reaching out to me. It wasn't necessarily for, specifically for marketing, it was about office space.

I. I'm like, do you, do you know where I work? You're 

Daniel: like, we're good. We 

Robert: got Keep. Yeah, I think we're okay with the campus that I'm at right now, you know? So what That clearly shows Daniel, it's like they didn't do their homework on me. It was just a generic. I'm like, is this a chat bot? This can't be real, because it was so much of a mess.

Now I do try to reply. I say, Hey, thanks. I'm good right now. We're good at Cox, we got a couple thousand off. I think we'll be okay. Um, but it just kind of goes to show that they're not making it a personalized effort to kind of, you know, have that that message either resonate with me. So when you look at, like, from an agency standpoint, when that happens, there's, it's very few and far between that I'm gonna, you know, respond or even, you know, pick up the call or, or, or take the call or whatnot.

So what I would say the opportunity is, is. If there's a connection, if there's a relationship that they might go through my profile and say, oh, you know, Robert knows so and so he used to work at this agency. He is still got a relationship [00:21:00] there. Hey, let me try to do an intro or connection. Having that, I would say, person kind of vouch for you.

Then it goes so much farther, right? And. The thing, and that's not so Farf fresh. I mean, you know, the marketing agency world is so incestuous. It's like you, we all know each other to some degree or with like, you know, I would say two degrees separation, if anything. And so, you know, how do you get in? It's kinda like, Hey, I know this person set up some time to kind of connect.

Um, is there an opportunity for us to, you know, just kind of get to know each other first? And that's the thing is like. I wanna know the person that I potentially would be working with and see if we vibe as opposed to, Hey, look, they do fantastic work. That is part of it. That is, at the end of the day, guess we all have to deliver, but if I don't necessarily vibe with you or have a relationship, or we're not, you know, on the same page, then it's like, okay, well I'm probably not gonna wanna work with you.

And so I think as agencies start to reach out or any vendor. One is kind of make sure that that message personalized, if there's a connect connection, [00:22:00] um, leverage that because that's gonna go much further. I mean, heck, it's just like looking for a job, right? You know, you submit a resume, it gets, you know, into the ether.

It's unlikely that you get picked up. But if you know somebody there, or if you have a relationship with a hiring manager through maybe another third party, then absolutely leverage that. And that would be my consultation to agencies. And so, you know, as we talk about that. Uh, you know, we've got a lot of agencies on our roster, right?

And so we've actually been going through kind of like a consolidation effort. So timing is everything. Right now, we're trying to skinny up and be a little bit more efficient. Just like the market is right now with all the things that you're seeing happening outside of the, outside of this space. And so, you know, that process was very interesting.

I think. Um, you did 

Daniel: a bracket style, uh, put put all the agencies had a, had a, had an arm, arm, arm wrestle. Yeah. 

Robert: That, that was survive 

Daniel: in advance. 

Robert: Yeah. You know, put 'em in the octagon and just see, you gotta, you know, yeah. It might've felt like that to them actually. But, but you know, [00:23:00] that process was very interesting.

And, you know, at a company like Cox, you know, just being so large, it does take quite some time just because there's many stakeholders that you kind of have to make sure we're good with along the way. I mean, yes, I'm in, you know, automotive, but that's split up by retail. It's split up by inventory. It's split up by mobility, right?

It's split up by enterprise. And so we have to be considerate about some of our other, you know, again, stakeholders and shoulder partners to make sure we're doing the right thing. Not only for just my division, but really for Cox Automotive as a whole. And so, you know, starting that process quite some time ago, having our existing, our incumbent agencies, um, you know, which we have north of 10, uh, come in and, and, you know, do the quote unquote dog and pony show to make sure everybody has a high level of comfort.

And then kind of understanding where we want to go from there. It is a daunting task. 

Daniel: Right? And so I'm always curious as much as you're comfortable sharing, like, you know, telling a bunch of agencies that you already have relationships with, Hey, like. We're, you know, [00:24:00] potentially looking at, you know, finding efficiencies, which may not include You were, was it received, you know, as I would hope it was received of Yeah, we get it.

And we're, we're happy to, you know, try to continue this partnership. Or was there, you know, a, a, you know, a, we don't, we don't want to do that and we've already done this type thing, or somewhere in between for all of it. 

Robert: Yeah. You know, I would say it was, it was some healthy conversations, right? In the sense that they've, the diplomatic answer.

I, you know, I'm had to, had to ask, you know, I can't, I can't fault, yeah, I gotta have the diplomatic, I'm gonna run for office today. That's what I'm, 

Daniel: I would vote a hundred percent. 

Robert: And so from that standpoint, it was, you know, some, some very healthy conversation. Just saying, Hey, look, we might be going in a different direction just because we have some, you know, some challenges that we've experienced, or, you know, from a rate standpoint, you're not in the ballpark anymore, and so forth.

So it's definitely some difficult but healthy conversation. And look, it was understandable. I think they kind of saw it maybe coming in, in some areas for the simple fact that in many cases we're almost like on a project by project basis and not necessarily a retainer. [00:25:00] And so because we have the flexibility of leveraging so many agencies and also have our in-house agency, which does a good job as well, um, you know, we can kind of pick and choose which ones we wanna leverage.

And so at that point you see kind of an organic decrease in overall. I would say projects and subsequently, you know, billing if you will, that's going to a specific agency. But, you know, for us, what we were able to do is also bring in an agency consultant to kind of help shepherd the process along. Um, bring us some net new agencies in addition to the RFP that we threw out, out, you know, out there and had some folks respond to.

And it was, it was interesting to kind of see how they, I would say won. Brought in some net new agencies for us to kind of look at, but then also said, Hey, look, you got some opportunities internally because you guys operate so siloed. You need to have, I would say, a, some better accountability in the sense of, hey, you need a universal brief that they can easily understand.

That helps minimize overall revisions. Um, in the back and [00:26:00] forth, um, looking at kind of a more formal process of being able to give them an indication of how many projects or, uh, what the scope of work for the year is going to look like. And that's critical for us because we want them to be able to, you know, have the best staff in place, uh, to be able to work on our business.

And if they're kind of looking at this, you know, hand to mouth and not understanding whether or not a product's gonna come down the pipeline in the next, you know, month, two months, six months. Then how can they adequately staff for our business? And so there was some cleanup that we had to do internally and be like, Hey, we need some better accountability on our side, um, in those key areas and formalize the process a little bit.

But, um, overall I think we're in a good place. We're kind of on the other side of it and started to kind of, you know, uh, generate some activation with some of our existing and, uh, one or two net new agencies. So it's been, it's been good. 

Daniel: Good. One more on that one. I'm just curious, I, I work with brands like Cox in that there are multiple brands under Yeah.

You know, one house, uh, is there, do you have an [00:27:00] opinion of shared services slash agencies between brands? Does Cox like to, you know, separate them so, you know, things don't end up looking the same or do you have an opinion of that? 

Robert: Well, y yeah, I think one, an opinion is leveraging agencies within your portfolio based on their strengths and capabilities.

And so the way I kind of look at is putting them into tiers. There are some agencies that we have that are like, Hey, look, I don't want to do the turnkey. You know, quick one sheets for you guys. We're all about the high level strategy and that's the only area we want to pay play, and you're gonna pay a premium for that.

But, uh, and they know that, hey, yes, the, the, uh, I would say work that they're going to do for us is gonna be expensive, but it's not gonna be the volume. And as frequent. Right. Then there's these other agencies that are like, Hey, we're in it. Every day with them is campaign development. Um, you know, the whole activation from a marketing standpoint.

And then there's finally maybe some, you know, tier, what three agencies, if you will, that are, Hey, [00:28:00] look, we need some quick turnkey stuff. Some agencies like to play in that space, but not all of 'em. So. You know, I think you have to have a, a, a good outlook and a fundamental understanding of what you're trying to achieve and why.

More importantly, why you're bringing that agency on board, right? And if you don't understand what their capabilities are, where their strengths are and what they can actually deliver, then I think you're just as fault as, uh, you're just as at fault. As the agency might be if they're not delivering on the expectations of the work that they're, you know, you're trying to get, so, um, it's, it's interesting, especially in this matrix and kind of, you know, um, I would say organization that we're in is leveraging multiple agencies.

You've got multiple brands. Sometimes we don't have all the visibility of like, Hey, we're all going to what agency for this stuff? And they're like, we're at capacity. So you have to be, um, I would say willing to pivot. And, and leverage other agencies based on the capabilities. Sure. 

Daniel: Um, without naming names, uh, can you think of, not just at [00:29:00] Cox at any point in your career?

Yeah. Like a negative agency experience you've had and what made it negative? 

Robert: Oh man, you know, there's, it's. There was one or two. Um, and it was really about, um, one, the technology that they were trying to deliver on. Oh, man, I don't know if I get too specific I to get this out. You know, I don't want, I don't want to see you an emotional 

Daniel: breakdown on the podcast either.

I don't wanna bring up bad memories, you know, I'm tell you man, 

Robert: PTSD, you know, but, but, um, from that standpoint, it, it was one, the technology that they were bringing, that we were trying to leverage, and then two, the people, right? And the technology piece of it was really around. It not necessarily doing what they said it could do.

Right. So over promising and under delivery would be kind of like the universal, I would say, line that this was, you know, kind of adhering to. And so from that standpoint, didn't deliver on it. We continuously tried to force it. We're having to report back to our stakeholders on the negative impact to the business based on the consumer experience that wasn't necessarily being delivered.[00:30:00] 

And then the people, right, it's just kinda like, Hey, just be truthful, right? You just be upfront so we can either fix it or allow us to go in a different direction, right? And what does that level of compensation look like? Right? So I think that's been kind of the, the most negative experience that I've had is like, Hey.

We said we could do this. You're not able to obviously do it. You're impacting the business as a whole. We're getting caught in the middle because we've got stakeholders that we have to report out to, and so you're kind of making us look bad. One from an agency that we selected, and then two, the work that's not being able to be done.

Um, and then finally the people just were like, they were honest people, but at the same time it was just like. You know, be, I would say upfront on the beginning of it, just kind of said, Hey look, we think we can do it. I think what they were trying to do, Nanda was like, figure it out. We got the business now let's figure this thing out, you know, as we go.

And that's what say build the, build the plane as you're flying. Yeah, exactly. I'm just like, come on, be real. We don't have time for this. 

Daniel: Yeah. On the flip side, I'm [00:31:00] curious, like outside of just great work, uh, can you think of a positive agency experience and what made it positive? 

Robert: Yeah. You know, I think some of the agencies that are on our roster right now actually are doing a fantastic job and, and I would say at the crux of it, it is two things.

One, the ability and to, um, have such a great relationship with us that they can actually anticipate. Um, the work that needs to be done. So that minimizes the number of back and forth, the number of revisions and so forth. So I think that's really helpful of, to kind of have that. And so it's been a very positive experience there.

And then the outcomes, the output that they're delivering has been fantastic as well. And I think it's because of those two things, right? It's like we've got a fantastic relationship. We've been in it for quite some time. They know us. Um, they know kind of where we're trying to go with the business, but I think that is also because we try to include them as business partners as opposed to just, Hey, that's our agency.

So for us it's like, Hey, let's bring them in. If we're [00:32:00] having our 2025 planning or strategic conversations of what we're trying to achieve, they need to have a seat at the table in order to, again, anticipate what those outcomes. Need to be. And so if marketers, if we're not doing that, then I think you have to take a look at yourself as to one, why not.

Um, and then two, you know, what, how can you expect for your agency partners to be able to deliver on some of the, you know, expectations and deliverables that you're asking to do when they don't have necessarily the foresight of upfront of what your strategic objectives actually are. So. We try to include them as partners, and that's led to your problem.

It's a very, 

Daniel: uh, it's a very common and like I think. Sexy line or like expected, A lot of brands say like, oh, we treat our, you know, our agencies like True Business Partners. And I find so few actually do, like, they still keep them at arms length and they're, you know, seen as vendors, which, yeah, we'll call you 

Robert: when we need you type stuff.

Yeah. 

Daniel: For some things it works. To your point, at an organization like Cox, uh, [00:33:00] you know, the intricacies of understanding the business and stuff, you, you kind of have to, or you're, you know, uh, lighting money on fire, truthfully percent by the back and forth. 

Robert: Yep. 

Daniel: What are you most excited about in the marketing space at the moment?

Uh, I'm, I'm sick of hearing the answer, ai, so if you have anything outside of ai, it, it's okay if it's ai, but I've, uh, that's what everybody has said lately. So if there's anything else you're super excited about, 

Robert: geez, man, that's gonna be my standard answer right there. Sorry. I 

Daniel: mean, you can still give it, but gimme something specific in ai.

Robert: Um, well look, I, I would say yes, ai, obviously, you know, probably why you're saying of it is because everywhere marketer is probably leveraging it to some degree, or, yeah, right. Um, look, I think it's an interesting, you know, tool that we now have at our disposal, make sure that's that much more efficient. Um, so I'm excited about the efficiencies that it can definitely provide.

Um, from a specific standpoint, I would say the way that we're kind of leveraging it is within our products. Um, you know, so that allows us to, you know, I would say [00:34:00] tailor the messaging to kind of elevate the conversation in regards to the capabilities that we provide to our retailers, right? And so.

Whether it's through, you know, our financing and contracting and leveraging AI to kind of help, you know, I would say with, um, you know, providing like 90 minutes off of a, a car sale, right. So, you know, that's a consumer experience that is not fun when you're going to dealership and it takes you like four hours to buy a car.

Okay. Well cool. Well, if you had automation or some level of ai, well we can help shave like 90 minutes off of that. Sure. So where that helps us out with is just reinforcing overall value to the market. And so whether it's leveraging it in our products or leveraging as a tool, uh, for copywriting or, um, you know, messaging headlines, multiple headlines at a time then and solving problems, I think it's been, you know, super efficient.

So I, it's, I, I don't know if I'm excited for like, the future. I think it's already here. It's in the here and now, and it's been around for quite some time. It's just that no, we have the, like, the tools to be able to do that. Um, but [00:35:00] uh, I would say it's definitely, you know, very prevalent within the marketing world now.

The other thing I would say, just to make sure that it's not all about ai, right? Sure. You said, um, is, is I would say I think what we talked about earlier, right? And that's the sense of this level of creativity and intuition coming back into the B2B slash B2C space to where you can't even determine or you know, discern what's B2B and B2C.

I think the blending of that is really fun. It's really unique. It allows for. Um, I would say a level of freedom again, uh, to be able to do some really cool things. So I get excited more about the creative aspect of it. And, and you know, what I'm starting to see again is that, that, um, blending of, of that B2C and B2B world, which is exciting for me, especially being with my consumer background.

It's like, okay, cool. We can leverage some really, you know, good emotion, like I mentioned humor, or not necessarily a tear jerk, or I still need somebody to buy and raise it. But at the same time, you know, it's, it's kind of cool just to kind of treat everybody as, as quote [00:36:00] unquote people, which they are.

Daniel: Yeah. I think my opinion with the AI stuff, where my mind always goes is as it becomes more prevalent and, and, uh, just normal in everyday workflow. Yeah. And e eventually, I think most people will have access to like a ton of that sort of stuff. Does the create, does it, the pendulum then swing back to creativity?

If everybody has access to ai, does the creative stuff become, and the storytelling and brand and all that become. You know, what people are paying a premium for. I, I don't know. That's what I'll be interested to, uh, to see as well. 

Robert: Yeah, yeah. Agreed. And I think, you know, in addition to that, whether it's the creativity, ai, I, I think, you know, embracing a level of intellectual curiosity, you know, moving forward, it's gonna be absolutely key.

And that's why I think you one, just re remaining curious, but adding a layer of smartness on it, I think could really help in regards to the marketing that everybody's trying to execute. And I think more than ever we're gonna have to, you know, adapt to the marketing landscape [00:37:00] and consumer, um, you know, behavior and demands and so forth.

'cause it's changing like every single day. Um, which is crazy. I saw a stat the other day. I. From Google and it was saying that 15% of daily searches have never been searched before. Right. And I was like, damn, that was a lot. And the reason being is like it's more dynamic, right? So in the sense that, okay, well instead of just saying, Hey, I need a, you know, I, I'm looking for an SUV, it's like, Hey, I needed an SUV that, you know, yeah.

I carry two kids and a dog and some sports equipment. It's like, that's what the behavior shift is starting to look like, right? And so I think we have to absolutely be in tune with that. Otherwise we're gonna miss out on quite a bit. 

Daniel: Yeah. What keeps you up at night or stresses you out from a, uh, a marketing or business standpoint?

Robert: Well, outside of my bad knees and restless leg syndrome, you know, I'm with 

Daniel: you, man. Falling apart. Falling apart over here. That's why I saw an un cold plunge because my entire personality, highly recommend if you haven't, uh, given it a whirl yet. Oh man. I feel like we're on Joe Rogan progress now. You know, you Yeah, you, I'm guessing you're a recovery guy.

The cold tub [00:38:00] back in the day for your knees. That's it. You gotta do it a little cryotherapy. 

Robert: Never heard this. Um, you know, what keeps you up eye as a marketer is, I would say for us, is maybe the attribution piece. And what I mean by that is, yes, it's available. Yes, we can obviously measure the engagement, the impact, and try to tie that back to, you know, revenue as much as possible.

But there are so many variables, at least on this side of the fence. That makes it difficult to say, okay. Well yeah. That campaign that we launched about, you know, advanced ads, which is a kind of an offsite retargeting, you know, platform that we offer. You know, how much of it do we sell? How much of it was directly tied to the campaign that we put in the market?

Right. Versus because, because we got human behavior involved, right? We might be able to generate some leads in a high level of interest in that, but I still gotta rely on. You know, Jason Smith to go and close that lead to see the attribution and the revenue tied the campaign. 

Daniel: I think Attri obsession over attribution, uh, stifles creativity like a target.

Robert: Oh yeah. You know, that's a great point. A hundred percent [00:39:00] because you're going after the attribution as opposed to after, like the creative way to get after it. So, and start of, you're kind of going after the. I would say the outcome that you're trying to deliver first, which is tough. Yeah. Um, so I would say that kind of keeps me up because not that we have to justify our existence at all, Daniel.

It's just more of like, okay, you know what, yes. There has to be some level of RI, there has to be some, some level of purpose on why we developed that campaign, why we're going after that specific. You know, target with this, you know, specific product. I think you, 

Daniel: I think you do. To your point not to interrupt, like, I think, what's the thing when things are good, it's sales and when it's bad, what's marketing doing?

You know, stuff like that. That's what, that's the obsession I think often with attribution. 'cause if you, again, to your point, there's so, uh, you know, there's so many fa you put out the best campaign in the world, you know, there's still 20,000 other things that could occur. External factors outside of your control.

And, you know, if it goes well. Sometimes you cannot say it was a hundred percent directly correlated. And conversely, when [00:40:00] if something, you know fails or you know, you, you can't figure out if it was from that. So yeah, the obsession, I get it to a degree. If you're spending, especially what I presume, Cox, and, you know, larger businesses spend, you, you want to know what did our, where did our money go and what did it.

Do. But yeah, it's hard I think as a marketer, 'cause you're scared to do the creative thing if you're not gonna be able to directly attribute it to, you know, your work a hundred percent. 

Robert: Man, that exactly kind of goes all circle to the top of our conversation, right? It's like stifles the creativity. You don't want to leverage your intuition.

You wanna be able to say, Hey, the data said to do this. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And and next thing you know, you're trying to achieve that overall attribution. If it doesn't work, you're exactly right. It's kind of like, Hey, what's up marketing? How can you fix this? 

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. Love it. We'll finish with some fun ones.

What was your very first job growing up or otherwise? Man, 

Robert: very first job. I mean, like I had actually, I mean, I might be dating myself. But I had a newspaper route. I don't remember how much I got a 

Daniel: newspaper route. I did, man. I was throwing papers, buddy. You had to be the tallest, uh, paper boy. I was gonna say in the, 

Robert: I was out there, I [00:41:00] was slinging those things from my bikes.

I was gonna say, geez. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I would say the most, the, and shortly after that, really quickly, um, I was, I grew up in Oklahoma, right? At Nor in Norman, at ou, pretty much. Okay. And I remember I was totally underage, but somehow maybe I was a big kid. I was like, 11 statue statute of 

Daniel: limitations is up.

You won't get in trouble from whatever you're about to say. 

Robert: But I was selling, uh, like Pepsis out of uh, uh, you know, in the stands at the college football games. And so my brother had a job there and somehow I guess he finagled it and I got a job there as well. I probably was like nine or 10, maybe 11 or something like that.

Jesus. I'd walk up all day. Pepsi. Pepsi and all that kind of stuff. But the cool thing about it is. You had to, they gave me a tray of 12. You had to go of 12 Pepsis. You had to go in and with $10 to start the day. So you bought the tray for 10. So if you sold all it, you made two bucks a tray. Right. And so, yeah, so that's kind of how it worked.

It was pretty interesting. I never That's 

Daniel: where your knee problems 

Robert: started. Yeah, [00:42:00] a hundred percent man. I was like, man, I should go back and get some, uh, some, I don't know, some something for my That's cool. I worked illegally at a car wash and I was like 13 or something like that. That was fun. Those, those were pretty fun times, man.

Being outside. I loved it. I loved it. Except when it got cool, that was brutal. I was like, I'm a tropical brother, so I'm like, dude, I'm out. You 

Daniel: know? There you go. 

Robert: What would your final meal be? Oh man. Final meal. Um, I. So my parents are from Ghana. Okay. And there's some unique dishes that they make that, you know, even if I said it here, probably nobody would understand.

But, uh, isn't 

Daniel: that, isn't there? I, I hope I'm right. Uh, uh, God, what is it? A, a goy and fufu. Isn't that, isn't that the native 

Robert: dish of Ghana? Okay. You, you're a member of the tribe. F It's what I'm 

Daniel: saying, you know? 

Robert: Well, yeah. It would definitely be one of those dishes. One of my favorite is, uh. They call it peanut butter soup, right?

With peanut 

Daniel: butter soup. 

Robert: Yes. Peanut butter soup. It's amazing. It takes a, you eat it with the food, 

Daniel: you eat it with the 

Robert: fufu and it with your hands, man. Otherwise it's not authentic, you know what I'm saying? Okay. Yeah. That would be my last meal, [00:43:00] uh, if I had the option to do that for sure. 

Daniel: Okay. And my last question, who's someone who inspires you personally, professionally, or both?

Robert: Oh man. Great question. Um, you know, I would say. Something that inspires me. I really look up to, uh, both personally and professionally. That's a good one. I would say it would have to be. Ah man. Just the competitive nature of of, of mj. I mean, okay. You know, growing up in not, not a bad answer. Well, Michael Jordan, for those who don't know, if you're listening to the podcast and if you don't know then that's a problem.

Daniel: Hopefully no LeBron supporters out there. Yeah, exactly. The go for the goat conversation. 

Robert: Look, I just think when I look back and I didn't realize like how competitive he was and that drive that he had, I mean, maybe if I had half of that, I might not be sitting here. I'd probably be retired sitting somewhere in the Caribbean.

But, you know, I think just. He's just so inspirational and he continues to be even outside of his playing days. And so I think for me, when I look to him, it's just kind of like, you know, the, the discipline, [00:44:00] the, um, you know, the, the intangibles that you get outside of playing like a sport at that high level.

I think for me it's just been absolutely astounding. So, you know, whenever I'm looking for inspiration, I think it's all about, it's all about him. Love it. Not a bad answer. 

Daniel: Um, I appreciate you joining. This was awesome. Uh, everybody go check out anything new or exciting from Cox Automotive that you want to, you wanna pump before we go?

Robert: Yeah, man. We got some great campaigns coming up. I think one thing that we've actually switched to you is more dynamic video and gif in our, in our campaigns. Um, just hopefully we can attribute that to you 

Daniel: once 

Robert: they're, uh, yeah, we'll see. We'll see if we increase all the engagement, you know, but really why we're doing it is all for the attribution.

That's all, that's all that matters. I, I appreciate you 

Daniel: joining Robert. Uh, enjoy the Sweet 16 and we will talk with you soon. 

Robert: Oh, fantastic. We'll see you soon, man.[00:45:00]