(Final Video) Hillary Settle, VP of Digital at Hanky Panky, The world Would Be Better with a lot More Hanky Panky

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Daniel: Hello and welcome back to another episode of the You Should Talk to podcast. I am your host, Daniel Wiener. You should talk to pairs, brands and marketers for free, with vetted agencies and or freelancers for marketing and tech needs because finding and great agencies is an enormous pain in the ass. Uh, few know that better than uh, our current guest, Hillary Settle, who is currently VP of Digital at Hanky Panky, but comes from the agency side.

So Hillary, thank you for joining us. 

Hillary: Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. 

Daniel: Yeah, for, for, I'm 

Hillary: also laughing, I'm also laughing at your jeans in the background. 

Daniel: I just noticed that, that I told you before that the podcast is real. You know, I, I changed into shorts 'cause I sit by my window here and it's like a thousand degrees while I do this.

So 

Hillary: I love it. I was, yeah. 

Daniel: I am wearing pants. You know, I can, I can say that I promise, or you know, nobody knows. That's the allure of the podcast. 

Hillary: Nobody knows that's the, that's the work from home. That's 

Daniel: a per I should, uh, honestly, if I had a bigger viewership, maybe I would've put on some hanky pinky. We get some bigger viewers.

But for tho, for those who do not know what is hanky pany, 

Hillary: um, yeah. Great. So, uh, [00:02:00] hanky Pinky is a legacy. Brand. We've been around actually coming up on 47 years if you can believe it. Um, we are a premium lingerie brand. We are really specialized in premium lace. Been known for having the most comfortable thong in the world, so I can definitely send you some, you can just that.

I appreciate it. Always looking for better thoughts, you know. Yes, yes. And we have, we've expanded, you know, our offering in, in the lingerie sector. So we launched bras last year. We have sleepwear, we really span, um, you know, supporting women in all stages of life. And that really means product offering that, um, caters to her needs.

So excited to be part of the brand. Um, I'm, I just passed a year. It's crazy here, and it's been, it's been fun to see, you know, it grow. 

Daniel: That's crazy. Um, you were agency side before that, uh, you transitioned to brand side. What's been hard? What's been easy? You know, I presume, I, I usually [00:03:00] ask if you think your agency experience makes you a better marketer on the brand side.

I always just kind of presume it does. 'cause I think agency gives you so much experience. But, um, yeah. I'm curious what's, what's been the biggest learning curve and what's been easier? 

Hillary: Yeah, that's a good question. You know, I've, I've worked both agency and brand like a few different times throughout my career.

My last stint was five years, so probably the longest on the agency side. And I think, you know, agency forces you to pivot fast, think on your feet. Really work collaboratively with the different teams. Um, hear the needs of your client and, and be thoughtful about, you know, the decisions that you're making.

And I think sometimes internally on, on the brand side, you're just so involved on a day-to-day basis with. The brand needs and knowing your team deeply that sometimes taking a step back, um, is hard to do. So I think coming from agency and coming into brand, I'm able to, to do that more often. Um, working better [00:04:00] cross-functionally than I think I ever have before, just with that experience.

Um, and I think there's a grittiness that's an agency like the pace and the, I was gonna 

Daniel: say is it slower or faster on the brand side for you at the moment? 

Hillary: Hmm. That's hard to say because D two C is just fast-paced anyways. Um, and, and so I'd say it's comparable to be honest, but I would say it's different.

It's, it's less, um, there's always, you know, a, a lot of action action items, but you have more of like a clear v uh, view into the vision internally versus you're just sort of a piece of the puzzle sometimes on the agency side. So you have more of a, like a project based view. Um. Not for all agencies, but Sure.

Daniel: Yeah. I'm, I'm curious, I know it's something on the minds of many, uh, folks in the industry at the moment, without getting like too granular into how it's, you know, directly affecting you all, um, you know, the tariff situation. Can you speak kind of broadly on how that's, uh, affecting or your thinking through marketing, you know, at the moment?

Hillary: [00:05:00] Yeah, I mean, being in retail, it's definitely something that, um, has been top of mind for us. It's been top of mind for our partners, for our, our merchants. I. And so, you know, being part of a legacy brand that makes most of their products predominantly in the us I feel like this is an opportunity for us in many ways to kind of, you know, communicate to our customers that we are really going to be like holding strong, you know, with our pricing and really, um.

Uh, making sure that they are still getting that like, high quality value at the price point that they've been paying, paying for. Um, and not as impacted, I think, um, from the tariff conversations. But it's, um, it's an interesting, it's an interesting, uh, landscape right now and I don't think, I don't think anybody really has like the answers to it, but communicating with our customers and really hearing what they need, um, has been, has been probably like the biggest.

The [00:06:00] biggest, um, I don't know, strategy, if you will. Um, at least on the marketing side. Sure. 

Daniel: Yeah. I think, uh, tariffs are, you know, one, one piece of, of the puzzle in 2025, but there's been a lot of stuff, the job market's a little bit weird and wonky AI is awesome and cool. And maybe taking everybody in the world's jobs, including ours, who knows.

What's your best piece of advice to other, you know, marketing leaders? Uh. Across the board on how to, I would say thrive, but also just survive in 2025, and how to think through, you know, how to come out on the other side of whatever, uh, climate we're in, in a better place. 

Hillary: Yeah, it's a big question. 

Daniel: I mean, I, I'll, I'll take it on my side since nobody asks, but I generally, it's easier for me to say I just find the brands who are able to, you know, and it's easier when it's not my own money, especially.

Yeah, the, the brands who spend through the tough times are the ones who generally come out better. Like they're, they, you know, didn't, didn't slow down a ton. They've pivoted maybe, but they didn't stop doing stuff. [00:07:00] Versus companies who are unfortunately laying people off and cutting spends is, again, easier for me to say when it's not mine.

But yeah, I don't, I don't know what they expect. It's like starting over almost on the other side. 

Hillary: Right. I, I would agree with, I would agree with that. I think a few things have, um, have impacted us just this year. Like, uh, I would say. We have quite a large customer base that's in la And so in the beginning of the years when, when the, the fires were happening, we did actually have a lot of customers reaching out to us about that.

They've lost everything, you know, including like all of their intimate apparel, which you would think, right? Like thinking about it logically, like every single day you are wearing, you know, your undergarments and you need that, including clothing. But that is, it's really important. So we had, um. We actually had a partner out in LA that we worked with, that we donated a, a ton of product to.

We worked really closely with our customers, um, that needed our support, either sending them product or coupon codes or ways that we were [00:08:00] partnering with them. So I think there's kind of, that was, this is sort of leading into, to a bigger, um, answer to your question. But I think in those moments. Figuring out who you wanna be as a brand and how you're showing up for your customers, I think is something that's really important.

And just, you know, even though that they are in a place and probably still are in a place of a lot of loss on the other side, they're gonna remember us as a brand that helped them out in the hard times. And so I think, you know, moving into marketing. For the rest of the year. One thing that we've recently launched was our leak proof panty.

And our leak proof panty is not just for, I know a lot of, um, brands are just launching period panties and for us, because our customer base spans many different life stages from those sort of, you know, early days, um, all the way to post post menopause and they need leakproof underwear based on, you know, their challenges in life.

We've seen. [00:09:00] Incredible success with pairing a solution product with our high quality lace. And I mean, to the point where we're selling out, like I, I'm constantly asking our teams like we need more products, which we're selling out of it, which is a great problem to have, you know, especially in this time.

But I think to your point. We didn't slow down because we still have been listening to her, not just today, right? These are my challenges today, but what have been the challenges of our lifetime? That at the end of the day, even if you are going through job transition or we have tariffs, or we, you know, whoever our political leader is, like whatever the situation is, you're still actually gonna, as a woman, be facing those, those challenges.

So you need products that meet you where you are. Um, so I think that's been the pivot, is like, where are we seeing our product meeting the needs for our customers, and how can we lean into that in a better way?  and part two of that is then what channels are we showing up on?

So, I mean, I would say any D two C marketing leader right now is. Uh, [00:10:00] very frustrated with sort of the meta, meta paid media space, the, the Google, you know, paid media space. Just the, it's hard. It's hard. It's hard. We're not seeing the same results that we did before. You're putting so much money in, um, to these channels because, you know, at least, you know, some form of like how they're going to perform versus.

Hey, let's, you know TikTok shop and how are you entering in these new channel spaces? Now chat, BT is about to, you know, have a partnership with Shopify. What does that look like? How are you going to incorporate ai? Um, and, and I'm really being asked like, how are you gonna be measuring these new channels?

And it's hard to say. This is what the success is gonna look like because everybody's entering into it in, in, in sort of, it's just all a new space. So I think that's probably been one of the biggest challenges for, for me, future state is saying, how am I gonna be diversifying my channels? Where, how, what is the financial risk or, you know, that we're looking to [00:11:00] take to, to invest in those.

And then the other side of that is how are we using ai? And I, I think, I think it's a shame because a, a lot of leaders are like, use AI to make your job more efficient. Like, how frustrating is that, right? Like, what does that actually mean? Okay, I'm using chat GBT for, you know, a brief. Like, no, you have to figure out like, what is ai, what, what is AI going to do to like, support what you're doing right now?

So for, for me, like just using that as an example, like chat, GBT is now being used as a search engine. So if that user behavior is happening and I know that our brand is showing up there, how is it showing up there? Okay. So looking first to see how it's showing up there and then how are ways that we can make sure that it's showing up with the right content that we want to be putting out there.

Part one and two, we know it's gonna be end up being a, a shopping and probably a paid media channel. Eventually. Let's be real chat. GB T's gonna monetize it. Okay. What does [00:12:00] that look like? How do we get in the forefront of like the conversations that Shopify's having with chat GBT, um, and how can we make sure that we're like ready for that?

Daniel: Yeah, it's exhausting. There's. Too much stuff. Too much. I agree. I'm actually curious with that, you know, not just ai but in general, the conversation I have a ton is around brand versus performance, which I think for a long time people separated and now they are starting to think more in line with they should work together.

But I'm curious, like you're in a a, every space I would say is crowded in 2025, but you know, women presumably have a ton of different options. Uh, you know, right in, in your space. How do you think through standing out, you know, in the, the sea of sameness in terms of marketing and not getting lumped in with other brands and stuff?

Uh, you know, as it pertains to brand per verse performance of, you know, you have, everybody has a boss, you know, you have to Yeah. Report on performance metrics, but you also want to, you know, show up well in awareness and all of those sort of things. How do you think through that? Or is that why we all drink?

Yeah, [00:13:00] right. 

Hillary: A little bit of both. Um. I would say, you know, uh, of course I both matter and both matter more now than than ever with the performance channels getting more expensive for D two C brands. I think, you know, in the past, especially for brands that had a really strong brick and mortar retail business.

They were being introduced to customers on the ground floor. Literally the floor of a Nordstrom, the floor of a Bloomingdale's, Hey, you're gonna be buying this dress, why don't you pair it with this panty? Um, and that is changing. The landscape is changing. We know that to be true. Um, with, even with Sephora, you know, putting out down double digits in revenue due to, you know, TikTok shop becoming like the beauty, um, purchase channel for social commerce.

So. When I'm, when I, when we think about brand and we think about where historically people were meeting the brand and [00:14:00] how now we're gonna have to rethink that for, for Hinky Pinky specifically, we, well, we still have a great, um, partnership in those department stores and we still have. Those reps on the ground floor that are introducing the brand, what el, how else are people meeting the brand?

And that really is in the influencer space. I mean, I know influencer marketing has been a, a heavy conversation, but people are following people. People are following their lives and their stories and who they are and they wanna hear what they're buying and why. And so that's really been something where they're gonna be our voice for the brand.

Um, and building relationships with. Specific influencers. Building relationships with those different communities I think has been something where that is the new brand building in many ways is aligning yourself with the right. Industry professionals and content creators that also care about the brand.

Um, many times we've actually had content creators reach out to us and [00:15:00] like I've been wearing KY Panky for like, literally 20 years. It's one of my favorite brands. Um, so we, we have a great opportunity where people are reaching out to us to work with us, which is a, a really beautiful thing. But, um, I think pairing that with reviews.

Right now, from a brand perspective, you've gotta have other people telling the story. It's that word of mouth. It's, it's coming back. Right. In terms of the tried and true marketing. Yeah, I know. 

Daniel: I, I don't know. Another thing in marketing other than influencer that affords you the opportunity at. Virality.

Every brand says, oh, we wanna go viral. We wanna go viral. And they wanna do it with organic content. You know, it's crazy the stuff that happens if you get your product in the right, in the hands of the right, even micro influencer, you know, like everything I know and discover is from TikTok. I've, uh, you know, it's replaced watching tv.

I mean, I doom scroll at night. You're right. But that's where I discover. Everything that I know. Um, 

Hillary: yeah. And learning new things, the things I've learned. 

Daniel: A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You guys also have a great name. I mean, truthfully, I think that's [00:16:00] half the battle. It's such a fun name to say and just, you know, it elicits some sort of happiness and, you know, just saying hanky panky.

So 

Hillary: yeah, it, it is, it is a fun brand. It's a fun brand to work for. I mean, we're known for color and personality and really, you know, that feminine premium product and. We haven't, we haven't like detoured from that. Like I think other brands potentially have, um, for, for whatever reason they've need needed to.

But I think that's when we talk about, you know, relevancy and being like differentiation in the market from a product perspective, we really know what our customer needs and wants and we're showing up for. I mean, the leak proof is a great example of that, you know, offering our tried and true product with a solution and it.

Been amazing. Amazing. 

Daniel: Love it. What's a, what's an unpopular opinion you have in the marketing world? Your, your hot take? 

Hillary: Mm. I'd [00:17:00] say, I'd say I go back to, to ai, I think generalizing. I. AI is going to, you know, re replace your job or AI is going to make your job so much easier or use AI for everything. I think these general, like, there's a lot of that in the market and I find it actually very annoying.

I do too. I agree. Because then it's not actionable and nobody knows what to do with it. And then everybody's just, you know, putting out LinkedIn posts that are general because they came from, you know. Chat, GBT and then it's this like cycle, right, of nobody really knowing how to use it. 

Daniel: I agree. Or 

Hillary: use it.

Daniel: Everybody says agent. I keep saying, you know, agencies are gonna go away. And I again, like, I could eat my words in the future and I'm sure, you know, things will change quickly, but I, I don't know. I, I don't, uh. I just see, yeah, there's so many, I haven't seen anything yet that has like given me this. Oh my God.

It seems like a lot of stuff that Yeah. Creates efficiencies and, and Right. [00:18:00] You know, gets you to the point. But I was recently helping a brand with a website and the COO came in towards the end and was like, can't we just use ai? And my answer was. If you try, sure. If you can do it. Like I tried doing it with my own website through some tool I found, and it wasn't, it was 12% there, you know, structurally, like it knew kind of what I did.

But, uh, yeah, like, I don't know. There, I'm sure there's a million tools I have not tried or the, I don't know about, but, uh, yeah, I haven't seen the great like Exodus, uh, yet. 

Hillary: Well, it's because it's, I mean, AI is pulling the information that it has, right? Like that's it. So it's pulling information that have been inputs from other humans.

And so it's, it's limited in that way, right? So you have to have human direction and you have to have thought and critical thinking around it to actually make sure that it resonates. Because yeah, to your point, like great, it can help you come up with like. [00:19:00] Questions for, you know, an interview or, you know, helping you, you know, with modifying your resume but doesn't know the information all about you.

Yeah. You know, all the successes you've had. Um, so I think it can build a framework. Uh, I think, I think the biggest opportunity for it, in my opinion right now. Is that it's going to be the new search engine. So from a marketing perspective, you've gotta be considering all of these channels. I mean, you already see, um, what's Google's Gemini, uh, how much I, I even use it.

It's great. Like when I'm searching things and the information it's pulling in, okay, what are all of the different, you know, AI search engines that are going to be popping up, that people are gonna be using and, and making sure that. You're optimizing your site, your channels. 

Daniel: Yeah. 

Hillary: All your everything to, to show up there.

Daniel: One more thing to worry about. Yeah. Um, you had mentioned my, my favorite network, which I have a love hate relationship with earlier LinkedIn. Mm-hmm. Uh, I was particularly interested in [00:20:00] your opinion of what I'm about to ask because you come from a new business and growth side at an agency. I find when you have the title VP of marketing Director as well, but VP and above, you know, uh, everybody I know is getting hit up on LinkedIn every 12 seconds.

Every agency thinks you are just sitting at your desk with a pile of cash, just, you know, doling out, uh, money to vendors and stuff like that. 

Hillary: Right. 

Daniel: Is that the case for you? Just a wild amount of inundation on LinkedIn? 

Hillary: Oh, yeah. Everywhere. Email. Sometimes they even get text messages. Uh, I mean, yeah, LinkedIn and, and, you know, I think it's hard, right?

I've been on the other side really trying. That's my, 

Daniel: that's, that's the question. Yeah. What's your, what's your PSA to, you know, agencies out there who hypothetically, you know, would love to work with a brand like Hanky Pany? Is there anything somebody can do when you're not in market? That gets you to take, you know, are you gonna take a general call with somebody, uh, you know, when you're not in the market for that particular thing, or No?

The answer I get most is, no, truthfully, [00:21:00] I don't have time anymore. 

Hillary: Yeah, no, I, that, that is really the biggest thing is, is time. Um, but I would say, you know, I went to the Etel West Conference recently. Um. And it's interesting because they have, you know, a floor with all of the different SaaS vendors, um, and it was busy.

I mean, there was a lot of people like interested in, in wanting to know more about it because I think D two C specifically has some of the largest tech stacks. Yeah. And agencies like we have a, we work with a ton of agencies. We have quite a, a tech stack to support because, um, you need it, I mean, it's digital now, right?

So everything, all the different touch points for a customer is much larger than a B2B business. Um, so I think. Two things, at least just speaking from a conference perspective would be, um, you know, I think I did take dinners that, that I went to. Um, I wouldn't say like during a day it's hard, like a, a coffee in the middle of the day, a [00:22:00] lunch.

Like that's really, I think hard, but if you are able to catch me in a morning breakfast, coffee, or a dinner and having other. Brand leaders at a dinner. So it's like a value play in, in addition to, you know, introducing me to your agency or to, or to your, um, your product. I think that's the move. I think it's that relationship building that's really bad.

I'm going to a dinner tonight actually, in Atlanta, so, um, you know, I'm willing to make time for that because I also wanna understand what's in the market and how, you know, different. Technologies are impacting it. Um, and also, you know, you never know, uh, we just recently hired on an agency to support us, so, and I, and I really wasn't even planning that last year.

Sure. 

Daniel: So 

Hillary: here we are. 

Daniel: Sweet. Yeah, that was gonna be my next question. How does hanky Pany think of agency versus internal teams versus freelance resources? It sounds like a combination of all. 

Hillary: Yeah, we, I would say we [00:23:00] have, yeah, we have all, all of the support. Um, I'd say, you know, for, for US, agencies are very specific for their niche.

So we have somebody focused on paid, we have somebody focused on SEO, we have somebody focused on social and influencer. 

Daniel: Do 

Hillary: you find it works 

Daniel: well? Having a number versus, you know, uh, fewer agencies? Do they play nice together in the sandbox? I, I find that the hope is always, they do. I find it's very hard to, to have that occur.

Hillary: Yeah. You know, I, um, I have maybe mixed feelings about, I, I like the idea of having one agency that would be able to do like all of it. Um, do I believe that that exists? No, I really don't. It's hard. It's hard. I really don't, because I think you even are up against, and this is maybe a hot take too on the agency side, but I think it's really hard to find an account manager like somebody that's leading the account that has a skillset across all digital.

And so, and to be like [00:24:00] a strong paid media strategist, a really, even if they bring other people in, like I think you will die as an agency if you have bad account managers. I 

Daniel: think it's the most important. I think it's most, if they're talking to the brand every day, the ones who piss 'em off the most. 

Hillary: Yes.

I think it's the most important. Um, and I think that's where you need to invest, uh, really upfront and take care of those people because I think they're the front lines, like you said, and they also need to have the skill. To talk shop with the brand. And I think that is, that is where I have let go of agencies because of that.

Like if I don't have a strong, even sa, even actually on the count level on, on SaaS products too. 

Daniel: Yeah. It shouldn't be a hot take. Truthfully. There are so many. I talk about it on LinkedIn all the time. Nobody believes me. I think there's so many brands I chat with where they'll like tell me a bad experience with an agency and they'll say We're still working.

It is entirely hinging on their relationship with one person they love. Yes. And like the, the agency presumably has no clue that like [00:25:00] millions of dollars in revenue is literally hinging on this one person and them having this relationship. And I think agencies don't want to, they're like, no, no, no, the work's great.

I'm like, yeah, like you eventually have to do good work or like you'll get fired of course. But now so many agency client relationships are literally, uh, yeah. Hinging on one. One person's happiness. 

Hillary: Oh yeah. And that's why I think, um, if I were to give agency advice to, especially like figure out your top accounts and not only have your account manager, but have a middle bridge between an exec, executive sponsor and the account manager.

Have a, a middle bridge there too. Somebody that would be like. Our paid media agency, for instance, I'll give 'em a shout out, new engine, they're great. And we have an account manager, but we have like a strategist in between. And then we have an executive sponsor that's on the leadership team. And so I have actually been in the room with all of them through the course of our relationship and they've brought different like value inputs, I know I can reach out to [00:26:00] them.

And that middle bridge has been really nice too. 'cause they've operated as like almost the strategic bridge if our account manager wasn't able to answer a question. Having that as like a, a, an additional support. 

Daniel: Nice. What, uh, what are you most excited about in the marketing space at the moment 

Hillary: out 

Daniel: outside of ai since you already mentioned it?

Hillary: Yeah, let's see. Um, you know, I'm, this is just like a very small thing that, but I've been working on it. So Amazon now has something called Buy With Prime. Are you familiar with it? 

Daniel: I think so. 

Hillary: So it's essentially a, it's where you can 

Daniel: use Amazon's payment for other sites, right? 'cause we trust Amazon. 

Hillary: Yeah, 

Daniel: yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, 

Hillary: it's not just payment, it's actually even like product. So you'd actually show like buy with Prime product on your site and it ships from Amazon. Oh, gotcha. So you both get to use your prime, um, your prime benefit. But then it's coming from [00:27:00] Amazon, but it's all. Going through your Shopify, which is 

Daniel: pretty cool.

I love it. Every, everybody should do. I had a very bad e-commerce experience recently. 

Hillary: Yeah. Well and you can do like mixed cart, right? So say you have a product that's gonna be from. From, um, Amazon, you know, you're gonna get that two day shipping and then maybe you have some other products that you, you didn't necessarily need, like the urgency of getting it.

Like one was a gift and maybe the other products were just something that you'd like to have. Sure. And you didn't really wanna pay for shipping or maybe you did get free shipping. Who, who knows. Um, that is also a benefit to it, is you can do kind of a, Hey, you ship from your site and you actually ship from Amazon.

It's all within the same experience. So we'll be rolling that out in the next. Couple weeks. I'm feeling like hopeful about the opportunity and just giving our customers another way for ease of checkout and, um, being able to use a benefit they already pay for through Amazon. Um, 

Daniel: does that, does that help cart abandonment or should that increase sale, like what's the hope for that?

Both. 

Hillary: Yeah. I mean a hope for [00:28:00] that is, yeah, conversion rate and abandoned cart. Yep. Both of those increasing and then being able to offer the mixed cart experience, you know, a higher a OV sweet. I mean, you know, all of this, like I said, is, is a test like they can. You know, give you, I know Adidas came now offers it, and a few other beauty brands do.

Saks, uh, who's a partner of ours, the Boxer brand, they, um, they also offer Buy With Prime. So some other players in the, in the space are doing it. And so we're excited. I'm excited to see. 

Daniel: We'll have to report back. Uh, what, what keeps you up at night from a marketing or business standpoint? 

Hillary: I mean, every day, I mean, for, for me, like every, every day I'm looking at, looking at our Shopify, because, you know, I've been on the B2B side and, and now being on the B2C side, it's totally, it's just totally different, right?

Real, 

Daniel: real time stuff. 

Hillary: Yeah, everything's real time and so it's constantly like. What are the levers we need to pull [00:29:00] and how can we, you know, modify things, um, in real time and, and, or, or something's popped off and it's like, wow, this is amazing. Okay, we're sold out. Like we need to come up with, um, a solution for a pre-order or, you know, you know, something like that.

So I think that just level of always being always on and, and it being a, um, just sort of a. Its own ecosystem, you know, our, our site. So I think that that's really important. How about you? What keeps you up at night? 

Daniel: Uh, in my own particular business, truthfully, it's like a first world problem. I continue to move up market to like bigger stuff and more, um, visible brands, which is horrifying truthfully.

So much more, uh, high stakes, higher pressure, uh. Requiring bigger agencies and newer agencies and more specialized [00:30:00] agencies, and getting to sit in the room a lot more lately for bigger pitches, which is cool. And I feel super fortunate, but terrifying. It's like, watch, I don't have children, but it's like watching my children, uh, compete in something and yeah, you know, just nerve wracking, um, gives me a, a very, an excited stomach ache, but a, a sick stomach ache and yeah.

Yeah, just being one person. Uh, the good stuff is from me and the, the shit that goes awry is, uh, on me as well. So hopefully, hopefully less stuff going awry. But, um, yeah, no, it's just being a solopreneur is, uh, awesome and terrifying at the same time. 

Hillary: Yeah. 

Daniel: There is one question. I'm curious with what you mentioned, like.

How do you think about it? And that'll be my final like work question. You just, there's 50 million channels. I mean, Twitter, TikTok, there's a new social engine or social network that pops up all the time, paid search, paid social, all of the things, you know, and you have a finite budget. Hypothetically, do you think, how do you think of like a depth, you know, versus like hyper [00:31:00] specification and owning a particular channel, or do you want to show up everywhere?

Are you trying to show up everywhere or are you trying to just master where you are? 

Hillary: Yeah, I mean, it's a good, it's a good question. I think how I'm thinking about it is yes, not being everywhere. Like, like Twitter is 60% male. That's just, we know that that channel's just not our audience right now. Sure. Um, so doesn't make sense for us to necessarily invest there.

Um, Pinterest is, you know, yes it is. Predominantly women and we have like a different approach on what Pinterest looks like and some investment there. But I think the choices we're making about opening the door to expanding content creation, both internally, content creation and with influencers, that is going to impact a lot of things like that, is gonna impact our paid media strategy on meta, just giving us more content, um, and opportunity to work with influencers on those channels.

Supporting our organic because we've already seen that, that's really successful for [00:32:00] us. Um, from an SEO standpoint, it is gonna help us because now if you even type. A brand in Google, you're gonna start seeing, you know, reels and tiktoks showing up. So those channels are helping us from an SEO standpoint and from an, from an influencer perspective, they're, you know, talking about us and, and using content there that's gonna be supporting it.

And then, you know, TikTok is, is. Very, we already have seen people talking about our brand organically on, on TikTok, and we also have a, another partner that, um, has worked with us and seen great success with it. So there has been some data that's come in to say TikTok really makes sense for this next channel.

And from an influencer perspective, um, our audience is also there. So, um, and then I think the last piece of it is, is we have a. We announced it in February, so I'm not sure if you're a Summer House fan on Bravo. You watch it. 

Daniel: Um, I'm my girlfriend makes me watch it sometimes for the Craig Craig and, um, the Craig Conniver.

Yeah. Paige DeSorbo is her, [00:33:00] uh, her, her girl, her favorite person, so, 

Hillary: okay. So Lexi Wood is, has been the newest cast member and, um, we have a partnership with her. She's actually creating a line with us that's gonna be launching in fall. That's awesome. So she's talked about it a little bit on, uh, you know, on the show and, and, and that's gonna be really big.

So that's also been, you know. On in the TikTok kind of universe. We've organically been showing just through that. And so, um, I mean that's part of the, the search engine, right? Yeah. Is if you already are showing up, then it's gonna support efforts like TikTok shop and some of the other, um, marketing initiatives we wanna do there.

So, love it. So that was a long-winded answer to say we are being very strategic with the channels that we're opening and testing because yes, you know, you've gotta, I've gotta be selective with budgets. Um, but I do think this year will give us. A lot of interesting insights. Sweet. Uh, we'll finish with some 

Daniel: fun ones.

What was your very first job? The 

Hillary: very first job, well official, like first, first job in the industry. I'll [00:34:00] start there because 

Daniel: I like the other ones. I can, people like the other one. One, yeah. Were you a server? A lifeguard? I don't know what that's, I'm trying to think about what other people were. 

Hillary: I was, so I was actually a referee.

Daniel: For what? 

Hillary: So I did a referee for actually like little kids soccer. Okay, same five year, like five year olds, like very small, you know, it was like that you had to just blow the whistle 'cause they kept with their hands, um, all the way to actually reffing lacrosse for like middle school and high school.

'cause I played, I played in high school, so I have, um, I would never wanna do that again. Especially for old, actually even five year olds. The parents are the worst. So competitive. I'm like, no thanks. 

Daniel: I coached sixth grade basketball years ago, like three or four years ago. Uh, and it would, I would never do it again because of the parents.

Uh, it's insane. So 

Hillary: it's insane. I'm like, Uhuh, no. So that was, um, yeah, that was my, my first job. 

Daniel: Okay. What would your final meal be? 

Hillary: My final meal? [00:35:00] Hmm. Chicken 

Daniel: piccata. Okay. No, from a particular place or. 

Hillary: I dunno. My mom makes the best. 

Daniel: Okay. Homemade chicken. It is. 

Hillary: Yes. I, I, it's, it's like, it's always been one of those meals.

What's, what about you? 

Daniel: A rib eye? Uh, medium rare. Probably some sushi on the side of that. Um, and like a really crispy, perfectly fried french fry. Wow. Call it a steak fry. I really thought 

Hillary: about this. 

Daniel: I have, well, I do, you know, I ask this question to everybody. Always, always interested. Um, yeah. My final question, who's somebody who inspires you personally, professionally, or both?

Hillary: Ooh, let's see. Um, you know, I, I really have a, and I, and this is kind of shout out to my, uh, friends, but also I've met them through work actually here in Atlanta. Um, [00:36:00] three of them specifically and they are all different. Uh, so Katie Ivy, who's the CRO of Walnut, she and I worked together many years ago and we are very close.

Um, she constantly impresses me. She's like a go-getter. She isn't as fearless, um, has been just a great connector in many ways and has given me, uh, a lot of tips on the sales side. We are in different industries, but from a sales perspective, she's just like. A boss. Um, so she's really impacted me. Um, Kara Brown, who owns an agency here in Atlanta, but constantly, you know, if you text, if I text her at any time, any day, any hour, I swear she answers me and is always from, you know, questions about work to anything personal.

She's just like there. Smart. We'll have one of the most successful agencies here in Atlanta, guaranteed. Um, and then my, my last in my, you know. Women in Atlanta, [00:37:00] girlfriends, but also rock stars, um, is Gina Koal. So she actually, um, is, we work together as well. She's a marketing leader and she, um, is in a really interesting transition, kind of being an entrepreneur now herself.

So I think banks. What do they say? Like those that you surround yourself with, you become, you know, like, and 

Daniel: you're the product of the people you spend the most time with. Product, 

Hillary: yeah. Product of the people you spend the most time. So, you know, they're all mothers. They've all taught me a lot of things about motherhood, being, working moms, um, and having that and having people in your corner to kind of, to talk about things, to level set.

I mean, it's, it's the most important I think. And you need to have that. And if you don't. That's a, a huge piece of advice. I think it's helped me with my career and helped me grow, have the difficult conversations, advocate for myself, all the things. 

Daniel: Love it. Um, for those listening who may be in market, uh, what, what, what do you want people to do?

Check out the site. Anything new coming out? What's the, what's the [00:38:00] best? All the above. All the above. 

Hillary: Yes. So definitely check out the site. I know I've been talking a lot about our hanky 

Daniel: panky.com. Correct. 

Hillary: Hanky panky.com. Yes. Um, I've been talking a lot about our leakproof panties. I think they're incredible.

Um, if you're looking sort of an entry point, never tried our brand. Definitely try our original rise thong. It is our iconic, our iconic thong. Um, but more to come as we have new swim coming out. If you're looking to do some traveling. Um, and then, you know, fall holiday already planning for those. So love it.

It will, it will be, um, a fun year. 

Daniel: If you see this, uh, if you see a sales boost after this episode, you'll maybe I'm your next, uh, affiliate deal, you know, or influencer or partnership. 

Hillary: Let's make it happen. Let's make it happen. That's what I'm saying. 

Daniel: Thank you for joining so much. Um, and yeah, we really appreciate the insight in you taking the time outta your day.

Well, 

Hillary: thanks. I appreciate it.

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