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Daniel: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the You Should Talk to Podcast. I am your host, your sponsor, you're everything. I am Daniel Wiener. You should talk to pairs, brands, and marketers for free with vetted agencies because finding great agencies is a pain today. Super excited to be joined by Michelle Morris, who is the VP of Marketing at Big Green Egg.

Michelle, thank you so much for joining. 

Michele: Thanks for having me. So excited to be here. 

Daniel: For the [00:01:00] three people on the planet who live under a rock, what is big green Egg? If they, if they haven't, if they haven't heard of it, and if they haven't heard of it, they're, they're not my people. You know, 

Michele: the best grill in the world, obviously, uh, but serves the purpose of everything you can cook in your kitchen.

You can cook outside on the grill around the people you care about. So I love the, at the end of the day, uh, it's the greed one that is shaped like an egg. Uh, for those that don't understand how it works, uh, it is a kamado cooker. So, uh, essentially shaped like an egg, uh, convection style cooking. And you can cook.

Pretty much anything your heart desires. I've heard of the craziest things from pork butt all the way to wedding cakes. So you really can do whatever you can do inside, 

Daniel: outside. I won't, I won't grill you on the, uh, the wedding cake, but what's your favorite thing to, uh, to, to eat off of a, of a big green egg?

Michele: My family's favorite is definitely pizza. We do a regular pizza night, Napoleon style. Can't beat a margarita. Pizza. 10. 10. Love it. 

Daniel: Awesome. Now, now I'll probably bri, probably brisket, if I'm being honest. Yeah, I am a, 

Michele: but that's a craft, [00:02:00] right? Not everybody can do that. 

Daniel: So that's why I asked what you like to eat off of a big green egg, not what you like to prepare off of big green.

Good clarification. Now, I'll grill you on some marketing stuff. We'll, we'll dive right in. What's an unpopular opinion you have in the marketing world, or a hot take of sorts? 

Michele: Oh man. Uh, for me it's coming back to that analog experience and that analog experience having a resurgence and bigger neck specifically were really rallied around this idea of just people craving connection and the world becoming more disconnected but more connected in air quotes, um, than it's ever been.

But people feeling more disjointed than they've ever been. So I think there's gonna be this larger calling back to. Whether it's experiential or physical, in-person experiences where people connect together, I think we're gonna see this wave, see this new marketing wave of people uniting people physically, and I can't wait personally.

I think it's gonna be huge. 

Daniel: I totally agree. I will say as somebody who throws like a lot of [00:03:00] dinners and like schmoozey stuff, for what I do, it's hard to get people outta the house. Like they want to, I agree with you. They want it, but they're like, oh, I gotta get off my couch. I can't wear sweatpants.

You're like, I, I wish you could. You can if you want. But yeah, it's hard. 

Michele: And I come over and bring your sweatpants and we'll just hang outside together. That's, that's, 

Daniel: that is the way to do it. Um, no, I love it. And it's a significantly more interesting answer than anything AI focused, which we can talk about later if you want.

But, um. You've had quite the journey. I would say you've had both agency and brand side experience, which to me is the most interesting in the marketing world of sorts. 'cause you've seen both sides. You're at 22 Square, we've got McAllisters, we've got Kamado Joe and Master Built. And now moving on to Big Green Egg.

Tell us a little bit about that career journey. And I'm particularly interested, like what have you seen in terms of the evolution of consumer behavior throughout, you know, your, uh, your experience in the marketing world. 

Michele: I love that question. I think for me. It continues to come back to data. Like the beginning of my professional journey, I was at 22 [00:04:00] and on the performance analytics team.

So really developed an appreciation for what the data, the story, the data can tell you essentially. Um, and then you kind of see, I mean, a lot of the best marketers that I know have that like deeply human, you know, side of their brain, the deeply creative side and understand the data. And I watched that kind of evolve throughout my career.

But on the agency side. I think what I appreciated the most was the ability to flex in between things and industries and just solving different challenges. And I think it's different on the brand side where you're playing a much longer game. So it's not, you know, you have these brand building efforts and you're doing these larger campaign efforts and all of this is building towards the larger, um, payoff, but the payoff is different.

Like it's a totally different game. Um, so I've appreciated kind of seeing both sides and for me specifically in my career, I really developed a love and appreciation for brand at McAllister. So McAllister's was owned [00:05:00] by, what was Focus Brands at the time is now Go 

Daniel: R-I-R-I-P Focus. 

Michele: Yeah, I know, right? Uh, OG J is a focus brands.

Uh, but back then I worked, so I sat in between what was started out as a shared services. We bounced back and forth from brand team to shared services. So. Um, that gave me an appreciation for both sides, but I really fell in love with brand in that context. So I worked very closely with the McAllister's brand team and they gave me the ability to like own campaigns from start to finish.

So one specific thing that comes to mind for me is free tea day. So we have an annual, had an annual still do. Um, an annual brand community celebration day. So if you don't know, McAllister's Tea is where it's at. It's incredible. And they spent many, many years perfecting the Fir Perfect Glass of sweet Tea.

Uh, but the community really rallies behind it and loves it. So they have a summertime celebration day really rooted around that. And during my time at Focus. Uh, brands and McAllisters, they let me own the [00:06:00] campaign from start to finish, so I worked very closely with that team. I just loved solving the challenge of how do you have an activation day?

How do you celebrate the community? What does it look like and how does it come to life? So for me, like really both the appreciation of community, really understanding. In that time, I was in a seat of social, social and digital. So really developed an appreciation for the voice of the customer, which helped me understand how important it is.

And now as a marketing leader, I'm like. That's the very first stop, right? So for me, understanding the positioning, understanding how to activate community and really appreciated and like the art and science of it. So food that really also was the moment I developed a passion around food and. We worked very closely with the chef partners on site there and understood how much art and science it really is.

Like some of it is gut and some of it is science and data and what people are telling you in focus groups and all of that. So I really appreciated and kind of found my footing as a brand, you know, a brand [00:07:00] leader of sorts 

Daniel: are, are you officially a brand, are you a brand over agency person now? Like 

Michele: I think I'm, I think 

Daniel: I am.

Michele: Yeah. 

Do 

Daniel: think 

Michele: it's hot take. I don't know if that's a hot take. I, I love the long game. For me, it's all about the long game and building towards something and feeling like I have ownership over the thinking I'm building towards. 

Daniel: So do you think it's given you, uh, I'm guessing the answer is yes, but I'm curious, do you think it's given you a unique perspective, uh, of, of working with agencies and the, the, the plight and the struggle and the strife of, of agencies?

Michele: Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think now too, working closely with people who come. You know, in, in this current state in bakery and egg world, um, having people who come directly from an agency background and just understanding how their brain works a little bit differently and seeing, um, I, yeah, I, it has developed a much deeper appreciation for both the relationship and the partners that we have.

Um, and the work that they do to build and make the connections behind the scenes, but then also their perspective. I That's great. Deeply value, deeply value that. 

Daniel: That's great. Uh, 2026 is weird, uh, with [00:08:00] everybody I talk to, everybody's just, I don't know, I'll say overall exhausted. Uh, especially brand leaders.

I think, um, agencies are always exhausted, permanently exhausted, but brand leaders I talked to just seem kind of out of it. So I'm, I'm curious, uh, in 2026 and beyond, what's your best piece of advice to other leaders about, I don't know how to, how to thrive or, uh, hang on, hang on. For dear life. In, uh, in weird, weird, tumultuous times.

Michele: It's such a strange time. Uh, for me it's really. It comes down to people and surrounding yourself with great people. And that might be people physically on your team or the external partners. There's people smarter than you and have a really clear and diverse understanding. Um, and then second piece I think would just be curiosity.

Like just staying curious in this world of everything changing at such a significant pace, it's all about staying curious and realizing you don't know everything. Um, and putting the people in the room that might [00:09:00] know a little bit more and all figuring it out together. That to me, is probably my best piece of advice.

That's how I find success, um, these days. 

Daniel: I like it. Uh, my favorite portion of this podcast, which I ask everybody, most folks, with your title. Once you, once you reach the VP level, the, uh, the vultures come out, they all assume you're just sitting at your desk with a pile of money ready to dole it out to vendors, third parties, agencies, all that sort of stuff, every single day.

Uh, I'm curious, is there anything vendor, agency, anybody can do when you're not in market that can pique your interest or, or get you to jump on the, the phone, you know, with a million other things you presumably have going on? 

Michele: For me, it's, it really is starting with relationships and I think it starts with, I often like am calling my network or my friends and saying, who do you trust?

Who can solve this problem? You know, who, who are the right people? Who are the most talented people you've worked with? Um, so it really starts from, from being known before you're needed. And, um, for [00:10:00] me that some of that is like repeat partners from location to location or job to job and having like known entities that you can trust and go to and you know, will crush the work.

Um, or the people I trust that they trust. So, uh, yeah, it's all about building trust for me. 

Daniel: That's what I was, my question was gonna be, you know, what's your PSA to, to agencies out there who would love to, you know, work with you presumably, but I'm, it sounds like it's be nice to your network so that they, uh, they they recommend you or recommend them.

Yeah. Just, 

Michele: yeah, don't be a jerk and be really like, just be valuable also, you know, build the network, build trust, 

Daniel: I'll press slightly 'cause I'm always so curious 'cause I'm very anti cold. I haven't knock on wood, ever sent a cold email with what I do currently, but I did when I was an agency and it sucks, you know, and it's really hard.

Is there anything, somebody, the answer may be no. I mean this is episode I think 65 and I think roughly like 62 other folks in your seat are like, no, if I'm being honest, is there something like somebody can say to, to break through if you are not [00:11:00] looking for that thing or you just don't have the time with everything else going on, which is totally fair as well.

Michele: Um, the honest answer is I don't have the time. Uh, so yeah, that's probably, that's probably my answer consistent with the others. But I think if you are reaching out and it is cold, like actually do your research and know what you're pitching me so it feels authentic and it feels like you are adding value to my life and solving a problem that me or my team has.

Daniel: Somebody should send you some pizza sauce for this family. Pizza night ears. Um, I've, I've seen a big shift, especially since COVID, but previously when I was at an agency of, uh, you know, I'll lump you guys in with named brands. Brands people have heard of that are hypothetically cool brands that agencies would, uh, love to work with.

Moving towards smaller, independent agencies that do like one to two things and do it really, really well versus full service offering. What do you think of that trend? 

Michele: I'm not opposed to it, my. Instinct is always to find the experts [00:12:00] that are good at the thing that we need to do. So right now we do have a small handful of different agency partners that have specialization, uh, to, to do the specific thing that we need them to do and that they're great at doing that thing.

So I don't expect that a lot of agencies are able to check all the boxes. I want the good ones to do the thing that they're really good at, and I'm okay with that. Coming at different retainers and different, you know, commitments, that to me is almost. Almost better, um, that we have the people that are very skilled at the thing that they need to do.

Doing that work. 

Daniel: Have you found it remotely painful to consolidate multiple partners and, you know, keep consistency and all that sort of stuff, or No? 

Michele: Um, I'd say not remotely painful. I've always just leaned in to let the specialist do the thing that they're great at. So I generally try not to consolidate in this instance.

Okay. 

Daniel: Uh, can you think of a really great agency experience you've had past or present, and what made it so [00:13:00] great 

Michele: for me? The agency, it's kind of consistent with the outreach, right? Like it comes down to having this really meaningful relationship where we're building something together and they really believe in the work that we are doing.

You could feel it, right? Like it's very inherent in the energy that people bring to the meetings or the pitches, or you can. You can sense a sense of engagement, uh, when people authentically understand and appreciate the brand and especially our brand, right? Like in this, in this world of an enthusiast brand, like it is different.

It's different. People who get it get it. And people who don't get it don't get it. So 

Daniel: when agents, when agencies not to interrupt, when agencies ask me. How do we win this thing? Or like what do brands care the most about? My very honest answer is they want an agency that gives a shit regardless of their budget, regardless of the scope, regardless of all of the things going on.

They want somebody they care. And I use the example of, you know, if it's Friday at. I don't know, 10 o'clock at night. Yeah. Ideally, nobody's [00:14:00] emailing anybody, but if something breaks, they want to at least know that you're around. I don't know that they can send you This thing happened and if you're awake, you say, yeah, like we saw that sucks.

We're gonna figure it out together, and stuff like that. So yeah, you cannot, uh, you also cannot teach that. Uh, I find you either have it or you don't. As an agency, 

Michele: I completely agree. And they just feel like a natural extension of the team. Like that's exactly what it comes down to, like. I could call my team up in at midnight or whenever.

Not that I would, but similar to the partner, you know, like they're, they're quick to jump in. They're, you know, they're just a true partner in that sense. 

Daniel: They should care, especially if brands like you all, which is again, I, I'll, I'll be nice to all the brands, all brands are cool, right? Some brands are, some brands are cool.

Yeah. But to your point, I'm more into food than most. Like you don't get the opportunity to work with, uh, certain types of brands very often in your career. And if you do, you should hold onto them for, uh, for dear life. 

Michele: Exactly. I mean, and back to the food point, like when people really appreciate [00:15:00] food, it's a different appreciation for the work that we're doing.

Like you understand the full. The full gamut of what you can do. So I know that's a specific to Big Green Egg example, but I think it speaks to the energy behind it and just the sense of engagement you would have overall with the work, which makes a big difference. 

Daniel: I love it. Uh, we'll go, uh, we'll go, we'll go dark for a second.

Uh, can, can you think of a negative agency experience in the past and what made it so, uh, you know, not so great? 

Michele: Yeah. I think, uh, the experience that comes to mind for me is. Uh, we, I think when we get really energized about an idea in the pitch or we like the concept of a partner and thinking differently, um, the brand thinking differently and what the brand is willing to do holistically, the brand being broader than just the marketing team.

Like what type of zags are we willing to make? What type of statements are we willing to make as an [00:16:00] organization? Um, but not being willing to go to the full extent. And we think at the beginning of the process or the creative process that we are going to go full bore, but we pull back and at the end of the day, that results in work potentially that we collectively don't feel great about and wasn't fully accomplishing the work that we wanted to do.

But it was a. A push pull, but then you feel like this lack of engagement, you know, overall. Um, so that for me comes to mind in a, um, in an agency relationship capacity. It's like I want all of us to be really energized about the work that we're putting out. And if you're not, I want you to tell me now, uh, before we're, you know, putting it out into the world.

So in the framing of thinking about them as a true partner, I expect that they're being very honest with me about how it's landing and. Et cetera, et cetera. 

Daniel: Um, so 

Michele: yeah, I think at the end of the day it's, they feel some sense of ownership over the [00:17:00] idea that the execution lives up to everyone's expectations.

And that we are all honest on the brand side, the whole team, everyone, stakeholders who have to be involved, um, are all honest about what, what you want at the end of the day. And that's reflective in the, in the pitch process. So you're not coming out at the end of the project. Not excited. 

Daniel: I'm curious in that example, uh, I won't make you give me a, a specific, uh, example.

'cause I don't want agencies listening to be like, oh, is that us? Is she talking about us? Um, are you saying the agency presents an idea that they're just so in love with that they don't take your feedback or the other way your, you come up with an idea and the agency doesn't necessarily think it'll work, but they do it anyways just to take orders.

Because I feel like that's the most common thing I see on a creative side of like that song and dance of do we push, do we nod, do we just on? And like it's completely 

Michele: fair. I think it's the latter. The latter is the situation that I'm referencing. I think, um, we, I, [00:18:00] in the selection of the agency, we came out of the gate expecting that we were going to be like making a larger statement.

And then throughout the process the work itself got distilled down. So. But what I would hope for in a partner is that we're having that very healthy push pull to make sure it lands at the end of the day, full stop in a place that we all feel really proud about. 

Daniel: Uh, 

Michele: so yeah, I think it's, it's the latter of what you framed in that, um, it was on the brand in this instance, distilling the ideas that started more.

You know, a little bit further than what the brand was comfortable with, but we weren't willing to commit. So 

Daniel: it's why, it's why creative is, uh, to me the most, like exciting, uh, RFPs or agency searches I work for, but also the most, uh, gut wrenching give me stomach aches because creative is so subjective and it serves many masters in the term, in the [00:19:00] confines of an agency search, it's serving the brand.

Ideally serving the brand constituents, the, the, the, the fans of the brand more than anybody. But it is so difficult and yeah, I, I feel for both sides, truthfully, I feel for agencies putting their, their heart, uh, you know, in front of somebody and saying, do you like this? And I feel for a brand, you know, trying to figure out, uh, like the middle ground of the whole thing.

And then I'm just sitting there biting my nails like, oh my God. Do they, do they like anybody? What's going on? Yeah. Pitches are hor, pitches are horrifying on the creative side. 

Michele: Yes, absolutely. And there's so much subjectivity at the end of the day too. I think the other piece, and I can frame this through the lens of my McAllister's experience and big beg experience, like having a quote unquote legacy brand and developing a positioning that is an evolution, but like an honor.

It honors the history and honors the legacy, but, and it's a meaningful evolution, but not a departure from the past. And that articulation like. Like the brand as a team has [00:20:00] to be comfortable with the evolution and it's everyone getting comfortable with what does the next phase look like? Um, that, that is on the brand side, I've found to be just like a, a slower process then, uh, it's a much easier to articulate in a brief, this is the new positioning.

Go and do, here's the idea. And then, you know, it's, it's a, it's a long game. It's a long game of just helping people get a board. 

Daniel: I don't think I've talked about it on this podcast. Uh, this is a, if, if, if not now, when I ran last year, the, uh, the Denny's, uh, creative a OR agency search and got to fly to Dallas to watch, uh, three of my agency's pitch.

And yeah, that was one as a, to your point of a legacy brand. With so much brand equity and so much of a story and everybody's, it's one of those brands, you, you mentioned Denny's, and so many people have a Denny's story, right? Sitting in that room, like watching agency's pitch, I felt like I don't have children, but I imagine it was like watching children of like, oh my God.

Like are we gonna, am I gonna ruin the brand? Am I gonna. Put Denny's out of business, like watching agencies talk about [00:21:00] brand evolution of a brand. I'm like, is that too far? Is it too much? Is it on the brief? It's very stressful, horrifying experience. A very exciting and one of the best experiences professionally of my entire life, especially for doing this for the last six years.

But yeah, watching legacy brands. Legacy brands are their own animal, and I work with a lot of them that I think gave me a stronger stomach for like. Watching and, uh, overseeing that process. But yeah, it is a, it is a scary pro. That's why I like media Media's more math and it's working or it's not working.

You know, creatives scarier. We put stuff out in the universe and hope, hope people come by or, uh, show up to a restaurant. It's hard. 

Michele: That's right. That's right. And especially too like that, I'm putting down my bigger egg hat on, like we as a legacy brand have a very established customer, you know, like a very core customer, but we are working to bring in the next customer.

So it has to be creative. That speaks to both. Or speaks to one, but like, doesn't alienate the other. So that's the very delicate line that we are trotting on, uh, the marketing side. And I think it's, it's very [00:22:00] healthy. It's just what is the line that feels like a meaningful evolution that gets in front of that customer in a relevant way, but doesn't make that other person feel like we've abandoned them.

So it's very interesting. I 

Daniel: was gonna say, I'll, I'll skip a question 'cause it feels, uh, you know, relevant here. Like, do you ever turn your brain off of, you know, in the confines of what keeps you up at night or stresses you out from a business or marketing standpoint? I know, uh, 

Michele: yeah. No, I can't turn my brain off, which is a problem.

Uh, I don't sleep well. That's, uh, but what keeps me up at night is just the pace of change. Like, and also the fact that I have two young kids and we just don't, there's just not a lot of sleeping that happens. Um, but no. Yeah, I think it's just the, the pace of change and what, but with that, I mean, it's, it's change in a positive light.

Like there's so much, I mean, our organization is working on what is that very meaningful balance of how to use AI in a meaningful way for productivity, but not take away [00:23:00] from the craft and the detail and the intentionality of. The brand experience. So, you know, like what comes to mind for me is the potential with AI in a marketing context.

Um, you know, specifically on the Claude side, like we've just been playing around with Claude Cowork and the potential there on just even building processes and just unlimited potential. So now my Instagram, Instagram algorithm is just full of all of the hacks for clawed, and now I've of course engaged with all of them.

Uh, but it's really the, the potential of what is to come. The speed of change and the ability to harness that in a meaningful way that's additive to productivity, but does not take away from that rich, meaningful brand experience, which is what our team is in protection of. 

Daniel: I think that's what keeps everybody up at night.

Also, like I get the most hyperbolic headlines of like, if you haven't mastered Claude, like you're 18 months behind. I'm like, I'm like, I'm 18 months behind already. Like I haven't even done, [00:24:00] oh my God. Like I better, I better start. 

Michele: Truly. I understand. 

Daniel: Uh, outside of all of that, uh, what are you most excited about in the marketing space?

Oh, man. And what are you most pumped about? 

Michele: I think it comes back to the beginning for me. Like in person, in person experiences. Are it? 

Daniel: Well, you've got a very, you've got a very experiential brand. 

Michele: We do, yes. We're very blessed in that way, and I think people are hungry for it, like. Digital is an option if that is your preference.

But we are truly believing and we wave the flag of the analog experience. And if you want the digital connectivity, do it like I fully support you, but I think we're in this moment where people are craving this like lived experience and they wanna pick their head up from their phone and they wanna talk to people.

To your point, they might not know how or be less comfortable. I think we all kind of got a little bit of COVID social anxiety, uh, but. I think people crave that connection and we're so ripe for that. And I think for us specifically [00:25:00] at Big Green Egg, like thinking a lot about, a lot of our brand experience strategy is really rooted in how do we create this premium experience that feels authentic and feels meaningful and elevated and is unique like, and so, you know, one of the things we're doing is this concept called secret suppers, but people want to pay for these experiences to have a differentiated experience so they can talk about.

Being on the side of a mountain with an egg and this group of 50 people that they found out about the day before. So there's just, there is a, there's a reckoning I think, of people. Finding these more elevated experiences and just reconnecting with the people that they care about at the end of the day.

So I'm excited 

Daniel: about that. You've got, you've got a perfect product for the introvert and the extrovert, truthfully, like invite your friends over or be like, I can't come 'cause I'm doing so doing some cooking and I can't, I don't wanna leave it unattended, you know? 

Michele: That's right, that's right. I'm busy. 

Daniel: Uh, we'll finish with a couple fun ones here.

What was your very first job? 

Michele: Oh, I love this [00:26:00] question. Uh, so I worked at. A, it was like a sports facility doing birthday parties, so, okay. It was called Sports Orama, shout out. 

Daniel: Okay. 

Michele: Uh, so they had like a large field and some batting cages in the back, and then people would rent the field and do like kickball and you had a little pizza room and you did cupcakes and the whole thing.

Um, so that was my very first job when I was 15 years old back in the 

Daniel: day. Have you maybe, maybe child labor? Unsure of the law. Yeah, I 

Michele: know. 

Daniel: Have you taken anything from that job into, into your, uh, your adult career? 

Michele: Oh, good question. Uh, I mean, I think it all ties back to this element of hospitality, right?

Like there is this appreciation for creating that experience like it's a birthday party. At the end of the day, you're gonna remember this at least for the next 365 days. Uh, so my goal was always just to, and of course I'm giving myself a lot of credit for being very wise at 15 years old, but I think it's, you wanna create a meaningful moment and a meaningful experience, and you want them to feel taken care of and.[00:27:00] 

Um, at the end of the day, that's, that's what it's all about. So probably that 

Daniel: I agree. I hope for a really, uh, interesting answer to this next one. What would your final meal be? Oh, 

Michele: um hmm. Oh, uh, gosh. 

Daniel: It can be multiple courses. There's no, uh, no, no, uh, no parameters here. 

Michele: Uh, let's go with, I mean, there'll be some element of pizza, right?

Some kind of like very. Authentic Italian margarita Pizza moment. 

Daniel: Okay. That's your appetizer. 

Michele: The little appetizer for the group. Of course, not just for myself. 

Daniel: Oh, everybody. Everybody's dying before this. This final meal. That's great. It's a group. It's 

Michele: everyone's final 

meal. 

Daniel: Okay, good. There's 

Michele: probably some dip that starts the meal and then that's like the, 

Daniel: Michelle.

Gimme some specifics here. You sound like a food person. What kind? What kind of dip? There's a million dips out there. 

Michele: Oh man. I had recently at the recommendation of a colleague, this really incredible. Uh, like [00:28:00] mini bell pepper, smoked mini bell pepper dip. And it's very simple. It's like four ingredients.

You're smoking the bell peppers for about an hour. You take them off, um, it's the whole bag. So you take them off the grill, 

Daniel: okay? 

Michele: And you take the seeds out, take off the stems, that whole thing. You squeeze lime into the blender, you're adding a little bit of salt and a little bit of vinegar, and then you just kind of pulse it a little bit and you get this very incredible, but very simple.

Like bell pepper dip, mini bell pepper dip. Okay? And it is 10 outta 10 delicious. You can add it on, literally, you can eat it as a salsa, you can add it on eggs, make whatever you want with it, but it's incredible. 

Daniel: We're still in your appetizer. We're still in the appetizer portion of your final meal. You've got this, this, this dip and some sort of pizza.

So what's your, what's your main's? 

Michele: Literally no sense. Um, yeah, let's, okay, so we got the dip, we got the pizza as a second appetizer, and then we're gonna go with probably like a, a great steak. Okay. Yeah, really great steak. [00:29:00] Um, some bread compliments, some size. 

Daniel: Obviously you gotta car carve it up for the last meal, 

Michele: I guess you don't really care with the greens, but you know, going out with a bang.

Daniel: And then what's your dessert? 

Michele: Oh gosh. Ooh, I don't know. Like a creme brulee, you know, something. Okay. This is a very, 

Daniel: this is your, this is your meal. I feel like you're asking me for, you're like a creme brulee. I'm like, I guess if that's what you want. I'm a warm chocolate chip cookie guy. I'm a dessert sim A dessert.

Simpleton. A good chocolate chip cookie scoop of vanilla ice cream. I'm in heaven. 

Michele: Or some milk. Yeah, that's a good one too. Cookies of 

Daniel: milk. 

Michele: Alright, cool. What's your last meal? I feel like we should do that. 

Daniel: Whose podcast is this? Michelle? Um, it's yours. My last meal. Why need to 

Michele: tell me 

Daniel: The appetizer would probably be like a sushi boat.

Um, the Maine would probably be. Uh, disgustingly large and rare ribeye, um, and dessert, yeah, would be like a really good, uh, crispy edge, [00:30:00] but mushy center chocolate chip cookie with a scoop of probably like Ben and Jerry's ice cream. Yeah. On top. Do 

Michele: you, are you a cookie skillet guy or just straight cookies?

How are you gonna 

Daniel: I'm fighting for my life trying to be a, a fit, A fit adult, you know, but yeah, I have a disgusting sweet tooth and if you gave me a cookie skillet in a cast iron, I would lose, I would black out and lose my bond. Yeah, yeah. Side. 

Michele: Especially with Ben and Jerry's on top. That sounds amazing.

10 out. 

Daniel: It is. Uh, my final question, who's somebody who inspires you personally, professionally, or both? 

Michele: Oh man. Um. Let's see, I think professionally I will call back to my time at Focus Brands. Uh, there was a female leader there named Cat Cole, and she had, are you familiar? 

Daniel: I have a good, keep going. I'll give you my Cat Cole story.

Yeah. 

Michele: Wonderful. Yeah, I'm just her. Incredible background, um, and just kind of tough childhood. I'll give the spark notes rising through the ranks. Young leader, female leader in an environment [00:31:00] where it's really challenging to be a female leader. Um, and like didn't have the creds out of the gate. And I think just continued to hustle and make a way, um, for herself.

And also just leads with empathy and humanity. And, you know, we had some very brief interactions at focus brands, but I've always. Looked to her professionally, um, as an example of a really strong female leader. And I, to, to this day, kind of take some of her leadership principles and apply them, um, to, to my day to day.

So, uh, I would call back to Kat. Shout out to Kat. She doesn't know who I am, but 

Daniel: somebody the, I interviewed, uh, Ann Mejia, who's that first light home care and was that mellow mushroom before this? Last week she used Cat Cole as well. And I told the story, I won't say which coffee shop 'cause I don't wanna blow Cat Cole's spot, but she works at a coffee shop right by me that I work at all the time.

And I saw her, I don't know, a couple months ago and she was getting up from a table I wanted and I was like, oh, I love a G one or whatever. And I'm thinking of using the sleep product. And she [00:32:00] pulled out two samples and said. Try this. It's wonderful. And you know, when you talk about like brand advocates and, you know, CEOs biting into hamburgers, they clearly hate and stuff like that.

It's nice to see a, uh, an executive who eats, breathes, and no pun intended, sleeps their, uh, their product. So that's my, uh, my recent Cat Cole story as well. 

Michele: Yeah, same. And I've been following a one from a marketing standpoint and just the growth that they've experienced. 

Daniel: It's wild. It's 

Michele: incredible. It's incredible to watch.

So, 10 outta 10, 

Daniel: I agree. Before we wrap up, what do, what do you want people to do? Who, who listen to this other than going and buying a big Green Egg? Any new products, any events, anything that you want to call out while, uh, to the millions listening out there in the marketing world, 

Michele: uh, my recommendation would just to enjoy the people around you and go outside 

Daniel: very di a very diplomatic answer.

Michele: Go outside and obviously cook on a grill, but it doesn't have to be a big egg, but. 

Daniel: Should be. Just 

Michele: connect with the people around you. This world has needed it more than ever. Um, [00:33:00] and food is incredible. So find some incredible food to share with the people you care about. Um, that would be my advice. The world needs it.

Everyone needs it individ individually, so 

Daniel: I agree. Thank you very much for joining and uh, yeah, everybody go get outside.